GS1100 Oil Temp & where to get a Cooler?

[Guest]

Not sure how accurate the guage read but what is a safe temp to run the bike. Better question is what temp should one pull off the side of the road to let things cool?

Also, is there a good source for bolt on oil coolers?

[catbed]

normal temp is above 212 but below 400:-D

[Nessism]

Ideally, the oil temp should stay in the 220F range. Not sure where the critical point is but 300F is really getting up there - and not unusual from what I hear. Synthetic oil is a good hedge since it holds up better to high temperatures.

No oil coolers available on the market anymore. You can piece one together fairly easily though from available pieces and/or watch ebay. I'm setting one up myself using a modified stock oil pressure sensor plate and an Earl's cooler.

There is lots of info available in the archives regarding this topic, some of it from me. Do a search on "oil cooler". Limit the search to Title Only to point directly at pertinent threads.

Good luck.

[focus frenzy]

problem with oil coolers is they can take away from your oil pressure/flow.

my 1000G came withe a vintage cooler and after getting a oil pressure gauge and experementing did I discover it was a major obstruction to oil flow to the top end.
my 83 1100 has the temp gauge and in highway running the highest I have seen it is about 230*f, come to a quick slow down for traffic and it climbed up to around 250 but once back up to speed it slowly dropped back down.

[Nessism]

problem with oil coolers is they can take away from your oil pressure/flow.

my 1000G came withe a vintage cooler and after getting a oil pressure gauge and experementing did I discover it was a major obstruction to oil flow to the top end.

I'm interested in learning how much pressure drop you saw. Could you please post some numbers?

[focus frenzy]

I gained 3psi @ 5K RPM when I took the cooler off and that is on my 1000G, there is not alot to start with on one of these roller cranks.
I am also running 750 pump gears to boost the flow.

I never should have bought that pressure gauge, ignorance is bliss and I had never had a problem with the bike despite the gauge showing no pressure under 4K rpm when the engine was warmed up.
I took the cooler off and and it helped but it still is below specs. then again odds are the gauge is no good as Bob has over 150,000 miles and still runs just fine.

[renobruce]

I gained 3psi @ 5K RPM when I took the cooler off and that is on my 1000G, there is not alot to start with on one of these roller cranks.
I am also running 750 pump gears to boost the flow.

I never should have bought that pressure gauge, ignorance is bliss and I had never had a problem with the bike despite the gauge showing no pressure under 4K rpm when the engine was warmed up.
I took the cooler off and and it helped but it still is below specs. then again odds are the gauge is no good as Bob has over 150,000 miles and still runs just fine.

I think you bought one of my "first generation" oil gauges, which can fail to read accurately once the oil is hot. PM me your address and I'll send you a VDO gauge... much more accurate.

[posplayr]

focus frenzy

Well I had several questions, but after seeing Renobruce's response I think I'll wait till you have a chance to remeasure. In the mean time there are still some questions on setup? Anyway after you get the new one please describe your GS1100E setup and measurements.

1.) is the cooler the GS1150? If not what size lines does it have
2.) Are you using the 1150 cover or the galley plug or staying stock?
3.) Apparently you don't have a top end oiler how do you know you are having top end pressure problems?

Note: My GS1100ED had a 1150 cooler but apparently was NOT functional due to having the stock cover. My temp seemed to peg right at 210 degF on a moderate 65 degree day with freeway speeds (65-75 mph). Sunburn has reported 300 degF days (no cooler) in the summer toward Ontario (further inland and closer to the S Ca. desert)

5.) So you have the 750 gears on the GS1100E and the GS1000G?

Note: On my GS1100ED I plan on:
* stock 1150 oil cooler with new 5/16" lines ??? I think; to match OEM ID size.
* stock 1150 oil filter front cover
* GS750 style gears (new HP oil pump gears) from Schnitz
* Ward Top end oiler from Schnitz
* New OEM Oil Pump (tach gear parts compromised my old one)

I also bought one of Reno's black oil pressure gauges and am interested on how I'm doing.

Posplayr

[Nessism]

Only have one ride on my 850 with gauge installed (VDO) and frankly it's hard to tell what's going on there. Needle flucutates a good deal although to be honest, I need more experience with it before passing judgement.

[posplayr]

Nessism

I'm not sure if it means anything but seeing this thread made me go and do some measurements and calculations. I'm trying to basically force all of my oil flow through a 5/16" ID line. This is close to stock but???

The stock GS1150 oil filter cover blocks off most of the flow to the filter to push oil up through the cooler before returning it to the oil filter (left side gallery). The ID of the oil cooler fittings are about 5.8 mm and the 1150 oil filter cover has a 1/2 circle 3.95 mm bypass. By computed area that is 26.4 mm^2 to go through one oil cooler fitting and 6.1 mm^2 to bypass the cooler (in the cover).

I was thinking that you might want to mimick that bypass ratio inside of your rear engine cover adapter. Now I'm not sure?


Now this obviously doesn't take into account the resistance due to lengths, and the hose itself is even longer but larger (7.7 mm) so it is really hard to tell what the ratio of flow is to the cooler and around the cooler. I'm staring to think that the hole in the bypass was optimally adjusted based on the stock configuration and I will not simply be plugging the gallery on the right hand side.


I'm going to have to figure out how to measure what is going on maybe if my pressure is high enough that is all that matters. Wil have to see.

Posplayr

[renobruce]

To elaborate, I doubt Focus has a problem. When I first started doing the kits, I was using a liquid-filled gauge, which after awhile found out that they don't always read accurately after the bike is fully warmed up. I tested several more gauges, and found the VDO gauges to be the only ones that remain accurate (verified with an oil pressure tester). Focus needs the VDO gauge.

I have a cooler on my 1000, and it moves alot of oil. I'm running the stock oil pump, and I don't see any lower pressures compared to normal. And on my 1150, if I put an oil pressure gauge on the head and the oil galley at the same time, the readings are virtually the same. So I don't think you are losing any pressure with having the cooler on it. Especially if you are relying on that gauge for your hypothesis. I'll send you a new gauge, and see if your readings aren't better.

[posplayr]

Nice to know

I was hoping that staying semi OEM would be OK, although with the 750 gears and top end oiler I'm probably less OEM that I was suggesting.

Posplayr

[Shin-Ken 1074]

This may sound odd to fellow GS/GSX owners in the States but here goes. Is there a concern that engine oil temps can get to high for safe riding and/or engine life? I have no experience with the riding conditions in the States however, I have done a lot of riding in hot conditions here and for extended periods, 11 hours at a time in ground air temps above 45 C with no problem for the Kat, I was a bit washed out though in ATGATT.

Stop start city traffic is a bigger problem, no air flow. An oil cooler without a fan will be limited in its ability to cool oil when stopped in traffic as without airflow it is just oil in a coil, whats the advantage in the oldschool cooler in that situation? Cheers.

P.S. You asked how hot the oil can get, without instruments (apart from oil pressure) I can't give you a figure however, experience has shown that the engine will seize after being on idle (slow moving traffic jam) for about 70 minutes on a 35 degree C day. Let the engine cool for half an hour start up and away. I would not subject an engine to that by choise, just to give you an idea on how hot they can get before they stop running.

[tfb]

A few thoughts from moi, for what they're worth.

1. Crucial to getting the best delivery out of your oil pump, is ensuring that the mesh pick-up screen in the sump is clean and clear. There is not much point trying to increase oil flow by changing over oil pump gears etc., if you haven't paid attention to the screen first.

2. 7psi is the nominated oil pressure for our GS machines. It doesn't sound like much -- and relative to other engines, it isn't. BUT other engines run much higher oil pressures because they're trying to force that life-giving oil into the microscopic clearances of plain crankshaft bearing shells, etc. Our machines have the celebrated roller-bearing cranks, so the oil pressure doesn't need to be huge. But the good news is that even at a relatively low 7psi, that is STILL 7lbs of pressure per square inch. In its own right, that delivers heaps of flow -- just see how much oil will pour over your garage floor in a few short seconds when you forget to connect a hose up. Please don't ask me how I know...

3. Oil coolers aren't meant to prevent catastrophic failure of an overheated engine, but rather by keeping the average oil temp. down over a long period, they are meant to prolong the life of the oil and therefore reduce long-term wear in the engine.

4. Just as importantly, oil coolers LOOK cool, and for sheer *bling* they're hard to beat!

[Shin-Ken 1074]

Thanks tfb, as a stock GSX owner that no longer thrashs the Kat and changes the oil and filter every 3000 km I don't think oil temp is an issue in my case. As a rider in the West I think if heat was a concern for an air cooled engine you would be in the know! There will be situations for other owners in the way they ride and the conditions for the bike so each to their own to help keep our babies running well, cheers.

P.S. Your Flying Banana site is great thanks for the effort in putting it up for the rest of us to see and learn.