could it be gas in oil, making it not start?

[Guest]

After cleaning and re-installing carbs, I set to prime and and 2 carbs were SLOWLY leaking gas. Took them apart and re-set float heights and made sure bowl screws were tight (thanks to duanage for the help). I also had 2 missing black rubber caps. re-installed those as well. but everything back together

I bench synched carbs and checked for leaks, on bench, in prime. No leaks. Yey. I reinstalled carbs. Cranked, fired for a sec and died. won't fire again. Plugs are fouled (from before), but seemed to be somewhat wet and they spark. Good thing is, carbs and airbox vent are not leaking when in prime, so hopefully my needle valves are seating properly now.

I also bought a new battery.

What I am realizing is that, after bench synching, I can;t remember if I turned the idle throttle adjust screw all the way in, out, or what. Might that be an issue?

Also my air mixture screw is 1 1/2 turns out from seating. thought that was the spec. should it be 3 1/2 turns out?

Also, I'm guessing my air filter and box have gas in it, and prob there is gas in my oil from all the problems before my carb re-build. WOULD THIS EFFECT THE START? I;ve read not to run the engine if there is gas in the oil. But will the oil drain come out, on a cold bike? I will replace oil filter as well.

NOTE:
Also, I still haven't done the valve clearances, I am going to, but i know the original issues with not starting was due to my needle valve not seating before I re-built carbs (major flooding in prime and on), so I doubt that valve clearance is the starting issue as I never had trouble starting before the carb issue.

I haven't replaced the spark plugs yet. I went to autozone yesterday but they didn't have the NGK -D8ea. Though you could get those anywhere.

thanks for any input!!

[Steve]

OK, several issues here, so let's address them one at a time:

Plugs are fouled (from before), but seemed to be somewhat wet and they spark.

Fouled plugs will probably clear up with a well-running engine, but your engine is not yet known be be in that condition, so you might want to install new plugs.

I can;t remember if I turned the idle throttle adjust screw all the way in, out, or what. Might that be an issue?

They say that memory is the second thing to go. I don't remember what the first one was. 8-[
If you don't remember, just turn it out until you don't feel any more resistance of the throttle springs, then turn it back in a turn or two.
Yes, that could be an issue. If it is too far open, it will affect the choke mixture, much like holding the throttle open with your hand while cranking.

Also my air mixture screw is 1 1/2 turns out from seating. thought that was the spec. should it be 3 1/2 turns out?

Most of us recommend starting at 2 turns out. When the engine is up to operating temperature, slowly turn each screw, listening for highest rpm.

Also, I'm guessing my air filter and box have gas in it, and prob there is gas in my oil from all the problems before my carb re-build. WOULD THIS EFFECT THE START? I;ve read not to run the engine if there is gas in the oil. But will the oil drain come out, on a cold bike? I will replace oil filter as well.

If your air filter and air box have gas in them, yes, it can affect the starting, as the air will already have gas fumes, then will be further enriched when it goes through the carbs.

Yes, the oil will drain on a cold bike. If you think you have gas in the oil, it's best to change it NOW, don't wait to warm it up just to change the oil. Thinned-out oil will not protect the bearings as well as it should.

No, the simple fact of gas in the oil will not prevent starting, but since it may cause damage due to thinned out oil, you shouldn't start it.

Also, I still haven't done the valve clearances, I am going to, but i know the original issues with not starting was due to my needle valve not seating before I re-built carbs (major flooding in prime and on), so I doubt that valve clearance is the starting issue as I never had trouble starting before the carb issue.

Don't kid yourself here. Your starting issues might have been valves, not carbs, to start with. Tweaking the carbs should be the last item on the list. Adjusting valves is the first. If the valves are on the edge of being "in spec", any mis-adjustment on the carbs will only aggravate the situation. With properly-adjusted valves, there is more latitude in the carb adjustment. While the engine is cold, check your clearances. You already have a copy of my spreadsheet, so there should not be any excuses. 8-[

I haven't replaced the spark plugs yet. I went to autozone yesterday but they didn't have the NGK -D8ea.

The Auto Zone near my house does not carry NGK plugs at all. I have to go to Pep Boys, just a little farther away in the other direction. And...make sure you are asking for the right plug. You should be asking for B8ES, not D8EA.

[Talon]

+1 on doing the valve clearances. i had my bike barely start on me a couple times before and after i adjusted the valves it went back to starting up first crank, and i also need to go through my carbs still. doing the valves will make a bigger difference then you realize.

[Kbecker3]

[quote=maro;804073]
Also, I'm guessing my air filter and box have gas in it...quote]

Would be careful of this. If the bike is not running great yet. I would make sure there isn't much gas if any. IF for some reason it backfires, it could ignite the air box on fire.:shock:

Also i would strongly recomend adjusting the valves before trying to start it. I adjusted mine, and it starts so much easier now that they are all adjusted properly, and everything has been sync'd.

From my experience, it is much harder to start an engine with fouled plugs than brand new ones.

[maro]

OK, several issues here, so let's address them one at a time:

good call

They say that memory is the second thing to go. I don't remember what the first one was. 8-[
If you don't remember, just turn it out until you don't feel any more resistance of the throttle springs, then turn it back in a turn or two.
Yes, that could be an issue. If it is too far open, it will affect the choke mixture, much like holding the throttle open with your hand while cranking.

I will check this out

Most of us recommend starting at 2 turns out. When the engine is up to operating temperature, slowly turn each screw, listening for highest rpm.

so I should do this once the engine starts?

If your air filter and air box have gas in them, yes, it can affect the starting, as the air will already have gas fumes, then will be further enriched when it goes through the carbs.

I will replace filter and check air box

Yes, the oil will drain on a cold bike. If you think you have gas in the oil, it's best to change it NOW, don't wait to warm it up just to change the oil. Thinned-out oil will not protect the bearings as well as it should.

No, the simple fact of gas in the oil will not prevent starting, but since it may cause damage due to thinned out oil, you shouldn't start it.

Got it!!

Don't kid yourself here. Your starting issues might have been valves, not carbs, to start with. Tweaking the carbs should be the last item on the list. Adjusting valves is the first. If the valves are on the edge of being "in spec", any mis-adjustment on the carbs will only aggravate the situation. With properly-adjusted valves, there is more latitude in the carb adjustment. While the engine is cold, check your clearances. You already have a copy of my spreadsheet, so there should not be any excuses. 8-[

I hear ya and I know how important this is! I will say in my defense that it was HIGHLY SUGGESTED BY GS MEMBERS (and you :-D to the point I think you responded in caps, hahahaha) when my troubles orginally occured that it was a needle valve not seating and a carb re-build was in order first and foremost. I can only hope it is a valve clearance issue.

also, I noticed that on my model there are two head covers indicated. Where is the part number on my head so I can get the appropriate gasket.

The Auto Zone near my house does not carry NGK plugs at all. I have to go to Pep Boys, just a little farther away in the other direction. And...make sure you are asking for the right plug. You should be asking for B8ES, not D8EA.

according to my manual and the plugs that are currently in the bike, they are NGK- D8EA


Thanks for all the help Steve, and all of you, you've been great and patient, The first thing I will do now is drain the oil and get new plugs. Then valve clearances. I'm trying to get his all in order so Duanage can come back and help my synch...!!

[Steve]

Quote:
Most of us recommend starting at 2 turns out. When the engine is up to operating temperature, slowly turn each screw, listening for highest rpm.
so I should do this once the engine starts?

Turn them all two turns out, then start the engine. Go for a ride, warm it up, then tweak them for highest rpm.


Quote:
Don't kid yourself here. Your starting issues might have been valves, not carbs, to start with. Tweaking the carbs should be the last item on the list. Adjusting valves is the first. If the valves are on the edge of being "in spec", any mis-adjustment on the carbs will only aggravate the situation. With properly-adjusted valves, there is more latitude in the carb adjustment. While the engine is cold, check your clearances. You already have a copy of my spreadsheet, so there should not be any excuses. 8-[
I hear ya and I know how important this is! I will say in my defense that it was HIGHLY SUGGESTED BY GS MEMBERS (and you :grin: to the point I think you responded in caps, hahahaha) when my troubles orginally occured that it was a needle valve not seating and a carb re-build was in order first and foremost. I can only hope it is a valve clearance issue.

also, I noticed that on my model there are two head covers indicated. Where is the part number on my head so I can get the appropriate gasket.

The two head covers might be for the 16- and 19-bolt models. The 19s came in during the '82 model year, so yours should probably have the earlier 16-bolt model. Count your valve cover bolts to be sure. The extra bolts are in the middle, two at the front, one ar the rear.

Quote:

The Auto Zone near my house does not carry NGK plugs at all. I have to go to Pep Boys, just a little farther away in the other direction. And...make sure you are asking for the right plug. You should be asking for B8ES, not D8EA.
according to my manual and the plugs that are currently in the bike, they are NGK- D8EA
My bad here. I looked at your sig and mis-read that as an 850, not a 650. Yes, my 650 book also calls for the D8EA.

Thanks for all the help Steve, you've been great and patient,
Believe it or not, that's why I'm here. 8-[

.