What should I replace while I have my engine apart?

[sultan]

1983 Suzuki GS 650 GLD, 22K miles. Please forgive the long post and tons of questions. I'm hoping to get some advice before making more work for myself, or totally screwing something up.

I'm a newbie when it comes to motorcycle repair. I have a decent set of standard tools, but virtually no moto-specialized gear. My mechanical experience and aptitude would probably be described as slightly below average. I do have the manual for the motorcycle.

Recently, some minor mainentance turned into a full-scale project. My oil drain plugged was leaking, and I determined the threads in the pan were stripped. I decided to pull off the oil pan, drill out the drain hole, tap it a size larger, and get a new, slightly larger oil plug to match. In pulling the mufflers to drop the oil pan, 4 of the muffler bolts broke off(!) with the remaining studs still stuck/welded into the exhaust block. After much cursing, I got in with a friend-of-a-friend who helped me drill out the center of the broken bolts, break down the remaining bolt threads, and clean/re-tap the holes in the exhaust block. We had to do that at his shop, so I had to pull the exhaust head. When I did this, the whole engine block came up from the crankcase instead of splitting between the engine head and the exhaust block. I know/saw some sand/grit fell into the crankcase from the engine bolt holes when I pulled up the engine block.

Now I have both the engine block and the exhaust block pulled. The pistons are still attached to the crankshaft in the crankcase, which is still on the bike.

My question is this: While I have all of this apart anyway, what other things should I do as far as an "engine rebuild"?
I know/plan to:
-replace all the appropriate gaskets (I bought a full gasket set, supposedly every gasket there is on the bike.)
-adjust the valve clearance after re-installing the cams
-use a cross-pattern to tighten the engine block and cams
-apply liberal anti-seize to the muffler bolts

I'm not looking to do a full engine overhaul, and I don't have the tools to do so. But, what else can I do (and what other parts/tools/expertise would I need to do it) that would make the most sense while I'm this far?
-The manual suggests replacing the piston rings. How hard is this, and is it worth it?
-Will I need a "ring compressor" to re-install the pistons back into the engine block?
-The manual suggests replacing the piston pins. How hard is this, and is it worth it?
-What should I do about the grit that fell into the crankcase?
-Is there any 'trick' to getting the old gasket material off without damaging the sealing surfaces? (Razor blade? Steel wool? Gasket removal discs: http://www.autobarn.net/xxxw-3m-7475.html ?)
-With all the drilling, tons of dirt and shavings ended up in the valve area. I realized this needed to be cleaned out, so I went ahead and bought a cheap parts cleaning sink. What's the best solvent to use to clean these parts? Any tips/tricks to doing this?
-What else should I replace while I have things disassembled this far & what special tools would I need to do these replacements?
-Is it worth going ahead and breaking down the crankcase and doing any maintenance there while things are apart this far?
-Are there any other "gotchas" I should keep in mind? Any other tools I'm going to need to get this beast back together? Anything else that's going to cause me to curse and have to order more stuff while all of this is half-assembled?

At this point I'm *not* planning on doing anything with the carbs, as that can be done once the engine is back together. After everything is re-assembled, I may get/make a manometer and either adjust the carb balance, or possibly do a full clean/rebuild of the carbs. That's for another post...

I did do some searches for "engine rebuild" and a few other things on the forum, and didn't find any pre-existing posts that seemed to answer my questions. Please forgive me if my searches weren't extensive enough and I'm repeating questions.

I have, or have access to: air compressor (and basic air tools), valve shim tool, feeler gauges, full set of metric taps/dies, full GS650 gasket replacement kit, full set of "standard" metric tools, and the motorcycle manual.

Any advice (especially layman-dumbed-down advice) would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

-sultan

Bike Pic:

https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/jsdunlap/public/GS650/Dsc00430.jpg

[chef1366]

Change out the valve stem oil seals in the head. Get new rings and two ring compressors. Don't bother with the wrist pin. Change the rings with the pistons on the rods. Get a flex hone for the cylinders. With the grit in the crankcase run the bike for a few minutes to set in the rings and then change the oil and filter.

[tkent02]

With 22,000 miles it shouldn't need much. Check everything, it's all in the manual.
Hone the cylinders to help the old rings seal since they have been moved around, or to help the new ones seal if you go that route. See if the valve stem seals are hardened, replace them if they are. Check the cam chain and especially the tensioner and guides, they can get old and brittle.

As far as dirt and crud that fell inside, get what you can out, then once it's together run the bike a minute and change the oil to get the rest.

[Steve]

I will just answer what I can and insert it into your questions.

1983 Suzuki GS 650 GLD, 22K miles. Please forgive the long post and tons of questions. I'm hoping to get some advice before making more work for myself, or totally screwing something up.
Good choice to ask questions first, before screwing things up.

Recently, some minor mainentance turned into a full-scale project. My oil drain plugged was leaking, and I determined the threads in the pan were stripped. I decided to pull off the oil pan, drill out the drain hole, tap it a size larger, and get a new, slightly larger oil plug to match. In pulling the mufflers to drop the oil pan, 4 of the muffler bolts broke off(!) with the remaining studs still stuck/welded into the exhaust block.
This is exactly why many shops won't even look at a bike that is over 10 years old.

Now I have both the engine block and the exhaust block pulled.
This "exhaust block" is actually called the "cylinder head".

My question is this: While I have all of this apart anyway, what other things should I do as far as an "engine rebuild"?
I know/plan to:
-replace all the appropriate gaskets (I bought a full gasket set, supposedly every gasket there is on the bike.)
Check carefully. I knew that my 'complete' set did not include the cam tensioner gasket, but I also found out that it does not include the oil pan gasket.
-adjust the valve clearance after re-installing the cams
-use a cross-pattern to tighten the engine block and cams
The sequence is actually cast into the cylinder head, consult your manual for torque values.
-apply liberal anti-seize to the muffler bolts
and don't forget the bolts that clamp the exhaust pipes to the head (but that's probably what you meant).

I'm not looking to do a full engine overhaul, and I don't have the tools to do so. But, what else can I do (and what other parts/tools/expertise would I need to do it) that would make the most sense while I'm this far?
You will need to find something in the way of a valve spring compressor, but replacing the valve seals might be worth it, since they probably came with your gasket kit.
-The manual suggests replacing the piston rings. How hard is this, and is it worth it?
It's not that hard, but does need to be done carefully. Is it worth it? With only 22k on the engine, it's probably not needed.
-Will I need a "ring compressor" to re-install the pistons back into the engine block?
I understand that some cylinder blocks have tapered bores, making it unnecessary to have a ring compressor. A pair of large hose clamps can also be used if your bores are not tapered enough.
-The manual suggests replacing the piston pins. How hard is this, and is it worth it?
Again, with only 22k, probably not needed.
-What should I do about the grit that fell into the crankcase?
If you can see any of it, pick it out. When the engine is together, use some inexpensive oil, run the engine for about 10-15 minutes, then change the oil and filter.
-Is there any 'trick' to getting the old gasket material off without damaging the sealing surfaces? (Razor blade? Steel wool? Gasket removal discs: http://www.autobarn.net/xxxw-3m-7475.html ?)
I used a sharpened putty knive and a razor scraper. The discs sound good, until you realize that they will re-shape aluminum if you are not careful. This re-shaped aluminum is not condusive to good gasket sealing.
-With all the drilling, tons of dirt and shavings ended up in the valve area. I realized this needed to be cleaned out, so I went ahead and bought a cheap parts cleaning sink. What's the best solvent to use to clean these parts? Any tips/tricks to doing this?
I have what might be a similar sink. BIG RED brand, it holds 3.5 gallons. I have been using kerosene for about a year, now, with no problems. In fact, it has been the same kerosene for the entire year.
-What else should I replace while I have things disassembled this far & what special tools would I need to do these replacements?
Check your clutch disks and springs. No special tools, except for calipers to measure disk thickness and spring length. These same calipers are also useful for measuring shim thickness for those shims whose markings have disappeared.
-Is it worth going ahead and breaking down the crankcase and doing any maintenance there while things are apart this far?
No. Splitting the cases is usually reserved for "last resort" types of repairs.
-Are there any other "gotchas" I should keep in mind? Any other tools I'm going to need to get this beast back together? Anything else that's going to cause me to curse and have to order more stuff while all of this is half-assembled?
Verify proper operation of your cam chain tensioner.

At this point I'm *not* planning on doing anything with the carbs, as that can be done once the engine is back together. After everything is re-assembled, I may get/make a manometer and either adjust the carb balance, or possibly do a full clean/rebuild of the carbs. That's for another post...
If your carbs are running reasonably well, you might get by with merely running some Seafoam for a couple of tanks of gas. When you get around to purchasing a manometer set, the better Motion Pro works well (the cheaper one, if it's still available, uses mercury in a poorly-designed resevoir), and the Morgan CarbTune is generally regarded as the best.

I did do some searches for "engine rebuild" and a few other things on the forum, and didn't find any pre-existing posts that seemed to answer my questions. Please forgive me if my searches weren't extensive enough and I'm repeating questions.

I have, or have access to: air compressor (and basic air tools), valve shim tool, feeler gauges, full set of metric taps/dies, full GS650 gasket replacement kit, full set of "standard" metric tools, and the motorcycle manual.

Any advice (especially layman-dumbed-down advice) would be appreciated.

Thank you very much.

[sultan]

Questions, more questions

Thank you everyone's who's replied so far.

I believe that I do have the gasket for the chain tensioner, and I def. had the one for the oil pan. I think I also have the valve stem oil gaskets, at least as best I can tell from the picture at bike bandit. I take it these are only on the intake valves?

I understand what a cylinder hone is, but don't know where to get it or how to use it. Is this a hand tool, or something that you connect to a drill? Doing a quick search, I see that there are different grits. A link to a good tool would be appreciated. My cylinders *look* clean, though there is some carbon build-up on the top of the pistons.

Same for a valve spring compression tool...a link would be very helpful. I'm not even sure how I'd use that, but maybe once I saw one I'd understand.

Looks like I'll plan on replacing the piston rings. Is there a specific size of piston ring compression tool that I'll need? Are the variable sized ones OK? (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SR4RM ?)

The cam chain guides *seemed* ok. Not quite sure how to tell if they should be replaced or not. Just wear? Cracks?

Thanks to all the responses so far, and I look forward to further advice that anyone has to offer. This newb appreciates it. I wanted to learn more about engines, but this is much more than I'd expected to get into at this point and I feel a bit over my head. I'm gonna be surprised as hell if this thing actually runs once/if I get it together.

[chef1366]

Do a google search for Flex-Hone. It attaches to a drill using low speed. Get a 320 grit.

[catbed]

put your location in your profile so we can see where you are. someone might want to give you a hand.:-D

[rapidray]

One more thing, DON'T just put it back together & run it with the dirt in the motor. Before you re-install the cylinders spray down the pistons & as MUCH of the crank as you can get to with BRAKLEEN to rinse out as much of the dirt as you can. Do this with the drain plug out or, better, before you put the oil pan back on. Have a drain pan under the motor & use at LEAST 3 or 4 cans of it to get out as much as possible. If much of that dirt is in the crank or rod bearings you can KILL the bottom end before you even change the oil like you were suggested above. After you get it back together THEN do what was recommended above but try to rinse as much dirt out as you can FIRST! Good luck, Ray.

[waterman]

I have used large hose clamps to compress rings for cylinder. Others have been able to compress with fingers.

Flexhones can be purchased from ebay, if your near Ohio come see me, I have one for a 650.

Great advice above. Make sure you have a quality torque wrench for reassembly. Gaskets can be softened with a spray gasket remover but watch out since it will remove paint. Good luck.

[Suzuki_Don]

Thank you everyone's who's replied so far.

Looks like I'll plan on replacing the piston rings. Is there a specific size of piston ring compression tool that I'll need? Are the variable sized ones OK? (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0002SR4RM ?)

You won't be able to use the ring compressor pictured here. This one is for use on car motors. If you use it on a bike motor you will not be able to remove it from the conrod afterwards.

Also when I got dirt and grit in the bottom end of my motor I used kerosene in a gun with a compressor to wash/force it out through the bottom of the motor. Kero is an oily substance and will not wash all the oil away from the bearing journals as solvents will do.

[Kbecker3]

when i tore my motor all apart, and put it back together, the cam chain tensioner was leaking oil. After i reset it, and put it back in and started it up it was dripping a slight amount of oil on the starter cover. It is really easy to replace the seal and 2 o-rings in the tensioner while it is out. plus i think it was around $4 for the 2 orings and seal all together.

http://bwringer.com/gs/camchaintens.html

[sultan]

Suzuki_Don, did you use a paint sprayer or something else attached to an air compressor to wash out the crankcase? I was considering doing something like that...just open the drain plug and wash out the whole crankcase.

I'm having trouble finding a 320 grit flex hone in the right size. My manual lists the cylinders as being 62mm/2.44". I see some 2.5" hones, but all of them are 240 grit, not 320. So far this seems to be the best I can find, and it's 2.5":

http://www.enginehones.com/212240sc.html

Would this do, or can someone point me in a better direction?

Also, is this what I'm looking for as far as a valve spring compressor?:

http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/tools/valve_spring_compressor/

The manual shows what just looks like a big C-clamp.

I don't mind buying tools, but I don't want to spend $100+ and then find out I got the wrong thing(s).

Thank you again for all the great advice. I'll be ordering rings and other parts today, and hopefully I can be putting things back together by this weekend.

[hampshirehog]

240 grit is a bit harsh but if you're deft and delicate you'll be ok. That's the type of spring compressor you want, though it looks expensive to me - £20 (or $40 equivalent) over here buys one good enought for the job. be careful you don't scratch the bores for the shim buckets.

Don't be too rough pulling off the old valve seals - they are pretty thin where the clip fits - just gentle side to side / round and round movement and they come. Check your valve seats and maybe re-lap. Use Molyslip on the valve stems on re-assembly (they have harsh time in there).

A good tool to use to swill out your cases if you've got muck in there is a trigger spray gun - the sort of thing household polishes and cleaners are sold in. Empty the contents and fill with 75% petrol 25% oil (not exact) and spray loads (half a pint plus) into the cases. Give it a good swill and drain with the sump off. If you drain over an old clean sheet you can see the muck coming out. Do a few times and in the end you should be getting next to nothing out. Don't forget to clean the cam chain as that 'sucks in' muck. (wash in a pot of petrol and oil mix, a bit at a time). Also don't forget to clean the oilways on the studs.

You can make your own piston ring clamps dead easy. Best material is an old metal biscuit tin. Snip a bit around an inch wide and long enough to wrap around the rings with a bit to spare. Wrap this around the rings (not too tightly) and then wrap parcel tape (or similar has to be no-stretch) around the tin. Gently tap your cylinders on to the piston and rings and watch as the clamp gets pushed down (if it doesn't it's too tight). As soon as the rings are in, cut the tape and remove the tin.

As others have said already - your rings should be fine, though worth measuring against spec. Don't bother with your pins - they'll last a lot longer yet.

[Suzuki_Don]

The sprayer I use to clean motors and almost anything is one that is made to be used with a compressor. The top screws off and you fill the canister (bottom part) with kero. The top part screws on and has a 12" spout, extension that the kero sprays out of with real pressure.

The valve spring compressor should be OK. But as the HOG says there are much cheaper ones around. Although you will need an extension piece to get the valve springs off and on again. On the 650 the valve springs & valve spring retainer and collets are in a cavity inside the head. Not like the 4-valve head which have them standing proud of the head. You need a cylindrical extension that will extend down into the cam follower bore when the valve spring is compressed. This extension should be wrapped in electriclal tape so it will not scratch the bore of the cam follower. This extension also must have a decent size hole in either side to be able to remove the collets with long nose or tweezers. Hope this all makes sense. I remove the springs and collets, etc. on my 550 with the bang it and see principle. One decent hit and out they come after filling the combustion chamber with rag or a half tennis ball.

[sultan]

Flexhone question

After researching this extensively, I think I have what I need. Before I got the wrong thing and toasted my cylinders, I thought I'd ask yet another novice question.

It seems that there are flexhones for different materials.
My cylinder bore is 62mm, so a 2.5" hone would work.
But I'm seeing "Aluminum Oxide" hones for aluminum
cylinders:

http://www.hrosecure.com/firstclass/store04/04CY250320AO.html

and then there are Silicon Carbide hones for steel
and other materials:

http://www.wttool.com/product-exec/product_id/3262/nm/Standard_Duty_Silicon_Carbide_Flex_Hone_Tools

I couldn't find in my manual whether the cylinders were
actually aluminum or steel. Obviously I could use a magnet
to see if the cylinders were steel or aluminum, but the
manual says not to use magnets on certain parts because
they'll become magnetized and steel shavings will stick
to them.

So, which do I need? I'm guessing the Silicon Carbon
hone. Or does it really matter?

Also, for anyone finding this post later, I found this
excellent video on flex-honing:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u9mZClv5Nfo

might be of use to someone else like me someday.

I'm planning on getting a cheap sprayer like this:

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/mtn9344.html

and using a low-velocity spray of kerosene
to clean the grit/dirt out of the crankcase.

If any of this seems wrong, someone please tell
me before I end up messing something up beyond
repair.

Thank you.