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    Turn Signal Problem

    Hello all,

    I have a 1979 GS1000S that I picked up last fall and have been restoring over the winter. Among the things I changed out were the turning signals and the handlebar switch. By the way, I'm a newbie, this is my first attempt at restoring a bike.

    The turn signals are not OEM, they were knock-offs from Dennis Kirk. When I went to install the new switch (OEM from Suzuki), I noticed that there was a relay wired into the old harness. After stumbling about and tracing the wiring diagram, I came to understand that it was the turn signal relay. Further exploration led me to see that a PO had cut off the self-cancelling module and installed the relay upriver, I assume because the replacement self-cancelling module cost about $300 to replace.

    So I did some more research and found a programmable self-cancelling relay for $100 that was supposed to do the job of both. 2 pins on the harness, 2 on the Kisan unit with a ground. I wired it up the same way as the old harness, installed the Kisan unit, turned it on and the turn signals light up when I move the switch but won't stay on and blink unless I hold the switch to either side. On the old switch, it stayed in the right or left position and didn't return to center. I had to move it back to center to cancel the turn signal. This switch returns to center and the signal turns off after blinking once. If I hold the switch over, the signal blinks the appropriate time before shutting off, so I'm inclined to believe that the Kisan unit is working properly. I put the old turn signal module into the harness and pushed the switch. It clicks once, the lights don't come on and nothing happens.

    I'm assuming that there is something I need to do to the new switch at the handlebars, but I'm reluctant to just dig in without a better idea as to what the problem is. My the way, I've grounded the Kisan unit to the frame in three different places and played with all the DIP switches with the same result.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated. I thought I'd be riding proudly this last weekend and it is killing me to still have the bike in the basement.

    By the way, although I've done a lot of lurking and limited posting, I would still have it stripped to the frame and engine without this site. I'm grateful to the many folks who have contributed to my learning experience this winter.

    Thanks. I've included a before and after pic. It seems like folks like to see a work-in-progress.

    Cheers.

    #2
    Nice looking bike.

    Are you sure that the control switch is the correct one? Since your bike originally had the self-cancelling signals, the switch actually had FIVE positions, with wires going to each position. From left to right, call them 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5. Position 1 would initiate a left turn, then the button would move to 2, which would keep the signal ON, waiting for the control unit to turn them off when it was satisfied. #5 would do the same for the right signal, and the button would return to 4. #3 would manually cancel the signal from either direction.

    From your description, it sounds like you have only three positions, and it is spring-loaded to either side. If that is so, you have the wrong switch. You can look for a switch for an older or smaller GS, you are looking for one without the self-cancelling feature. The button will remain wherever you put it on those units.

    .
    sigpic
    mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
    hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
    #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
    #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
    Family Portrait
    Siblings and Spouses
    Mom's first ride
    Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
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    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Steve,

      Again, I'm a newbie. The switch looks exactly the same. The wire colors and the pin placements are exactly the same. I haven't had the nerve to open up the switch to look inside. On the old switch, if felt like there were only three positions but truthfully, I don't know. I only know that I had to move the switch manally to turn the signals on and off on the old switch and it was a very fluid (maybe because it was old) movement. It just slid to either side. There was no feel of different stopping points on the switch.

      If I were to go with a switch from a smaller bike, would the wiring colors and pin positions line up the same way?

      Alternatively, if I can take the springs out of this new switch, do you think I could accomplish the same thing? It looks like the new relay will take care of the self-canceling stuff if the switch will stay in the "on' position.
      Last edited by Guest; 04-29-2008, 11:49 AM.

      Comment


        #4
        Try the switch again, paying attention to how it feels. I know that a new switch will have rather fluid movement, but pay attention to details.

        When you move the button to the far left, (position 1), it is slightly spring-loaded and will return to #2. Same thing on the other side, #5 is spring-loaded and will return to #4. From #4, moving it to the left should have a mild click to #3, another mild click to #2, then just a spring-loaded push to #1 and it returns to #2.

        If you look at your wiring diagram (you do have a manual, don't you?), look for the wires that are attached to terminals for positions 2 and 4 and connect them to your Kisan flasher. If you don't have a manual, go to BikeCliff's website and get one.

        .
        sigpic
        mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
        hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
        #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
        #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
        Family Portrait
        Siblings and Spouses
        Mom's first ride
        Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
        (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

        Comment


          #5
          I had a '79 850 from the showroom, and I never noticed five positions. There were three, all momentary: left, right and down (for manual cancel). Once operated, the switch returns to center.

          I have a switch assembly from a nearly new (at the time) 1000 that works the same way. I just operated it and I didn't notice anything other than the three positions.

          Are you sure we're talking about the same function / bike?

          The wiring diagram shows just a SPDT plus a momentary cancel. There's no wiring provision for any other switch positions.
          Last edited by robertbarr; 04-29-2008, 12:26 PM.
          and God said, "Let there be air compressors!"
          __________________________________________________ ______________________
          2009 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, 2004 HondaPotamus sigpic Git'cha O-ring Kits Here!

          Comment


            #6
            I'm going to take the cover plate off both the old and the new switches tonight and see if the wiring connections are the same. I may post a picture tomorrow of both to see if there is any additional advice.

            By the way, thanks Robert. The bike has your intake o-rings and stainless Allen screws.

            Cheers!

            Comment


              #7
              Common problem with the 78-79 with the self canceling T signals. If the switch does not click & stay in the direction it is pushed You need a different switch I used one from a GS750. You should have the 4 wire plug that the module pluged into modified to connect the front & rear of each side together
              As far as the stock switch you cannot remove the springs

              Comment


                #8
                i have the stock GS750L non cancelling turn signals, so i can't help much, but i can try. I also noticed you are from Missouri - whereabouts you from? If it's close maybe we can get together some time.

                on a side note, do you have a link to the manu website? maybe if i can see a manual it will help. it sounds like the switch you have installed is a momentary switch. the old stock one was a normal switch. I'm curious if the kisan relay needs constant current to the correct respective side or if the momentary current will get it through. For the momentary to work it would seem that it needs a connection to positive voltage from somewhere other than the signal switch.

                EDIT - After a quick search, i found the kisan signal minder. if this is what you have it is my understanding it will only self cancel if the switch is left on, and does not work with the momentary switches. If this is what you have, it's basically made to set blink rates on other than stock loads (LED turn signals for example) and turn them off automatically if you forget to (which i do sometimes).

                EDIT 2 - After reading the manual from kisantech.com - it seems you have to install the running light option for momentary switchs to work. There's a part in the manual (located at http://www.kisantech.com/brochures/SM-inst-manual.pdf ) that states

                "Q:
                ...But now the turn signals will flash only if I hold the switch down. As soon as I let go of the lever, they stop flashing. What’s wrong?
                A:
                You have not made the Running Light option connections. Without the Running Light option hooked up, as soon as the turn signal switch comes to neutral, there’s no continuity. signalMinder needs alternate paths, so it can supply the current to the turn signal bulbs"
                Last edited by Guest; 04-29-2008, 09:16 PM.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Steve's description is exactly how mine works. I've been interested in completely replacing my hand controls with a newer model SV or similar, as I just really enjoy the way they look and feel, more so than I care about an auto signal. In my manual, the switch shows the equivalent of Steve's 1-5 as: L - N - C - N - R

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I have a 1980 GS850G... And my turn signal switch also is as Steve and JC describe.

                    Wish I could help more, but all I can do is confirm that my original switch is like these other guys.

                    Good luck, Greg

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by GregM. View Post
                      I have a 1980 GS850G... And my turn signal switch also is as Steve and JC describe.
                      See, you folks are talking about '80+ bikes. I'm almost 100% certain that 1979 was the last year for the momentary-switch self-cancel. You're discussing a different animal here.
                      and God said, "Let there be air compressors!"
                      __________________________________________________ ______________________
                      2009 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, 2004 HondaPotamus sigpic Git'cha O-ring Kits Here!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Okay, I pullled both switches. The both seem to work the way Robert described. Left and auto-return to center. Right and auto-return to center. Down to turn if off, though the old one doesn't return to center. I guess the springs in the switch are gone.

                        However, I did pull the cover plate off both of them to try to get a look at the wiring. A pic is attached. Though the green wire routes underneath in the old one (on the right), they appear to be the same.

                        Question: If I get a switch from a 750 model, will the connections and wiring be the same at the connector. Alternatively, I'd like to try to set up the running light option with the Kisan unit, but I am electricaly system challenged.

                        Thanks to everyone for your advice and insights.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Those aren't identical; the one on the left has the spring contact for the 'down to cancel' function. The other doesn't. I'm guessing you've taken these apart. (I don't see the switch arm on either of them, and I can see the pivot point on the RH assembly).




                          I can dig out my switch assembly and try to photograph it.
                          and God said, "Let there be air compressors!"
                          __________________________________________________ ______________________
                          2009 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, 2004 HondaPotamus sigpic Git'cha O-ring Kits Here!

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Those aren't identical; the one on the left has the spring contact for the 'down to cancel' function. The other doesn't. I'm guessing you've taken these apart. (I don't see the switch arm on either of them, and I can see the pivot point on the RH assembly).


                            I can dig out my switch assembly and try to photograph it, but I'm not sure how much help that would be.
                            and God said, "Let there be air compressors!"
                            __________________________________________________ ______________________
                            2009 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, 2004 HondaPotamus sigpic Git'cha O-ring Kits Here!

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I partially disassembled both to try to get a picture of the wiring. Actually, the return spring was there on the old switch. It just fell out when I took the switch arm off it. I put it back in and it seemed to work okay, though I don't plan to use it. I can't tell the difference, as the wiring connections and colors appear to be the same. Obviously, I still have a lot to learn.

                              Any thoughts on whether a switch from a 750 (and what model/year) would fit and solve this problem.

                              I'm going to try to figure out how to connect the running light option on the Kisan relay this evening to see if that takes care of it.l

                              Many thanks.

                              Comment

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