Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

No power above 5k rpm

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    No power above 5k rpm

    First, let me say I do own a Suzuki GS, but my current problem is with my wife's 1989 Kawasaki El250 eliminator. Hopefully the question I have is generic enough, and ya'll are generous enough so I can get some help and direction. That way she can go riding with me, so . . .

    Originally, the bike had a big dead spot in the low to mid rpm band, although without a tach, I'm guessing on rpms. Found that the airbox boots to the carbs had been cut and jury-rigged, so those were replaced. At the same time I disassembled the carbs and did a minor cleanup with spray carb, some dip, and air compressor, but no parts replaced. It was not dirty, and the parts all looked good. Set the pilot screws to the same as it was 2.5 turns out. Ran like dog poo at all speeds and had no top end.

    Replaced the plugs with correct ones, left was sooty and fouled, right was fine. Synched the carbs and it revs sweet when it isn't in gear. However, on the highway, it still has some hesitation particularly at operating temperature, and the last 40% of the throttle does nothing. It tops out on the flat at 55 mph, and definitely isn't running over maybe 5k rpm. It is running much better though.

    Bike has a little over 31,000 miles on it and appears to have been garaged it's whole life. It is cosmetically in very good shape and has never been laid down that I can see.

    So I need some advice on where to go next. Here are some areas I am looking at:

    The air filter has been replaced with a K&N by the PO. The filter is oval cartridge with seals on both ends. I don't think it's supposed to be oiled and it isn't.

    There are no air leaks from the airbox to the carbs or from the carbs to the engine, verified by spraying carb cleaner on all junctions.

    I checked the resistance of the ignition coils. I have to use a Kaw manual for the '87 and '88 Ninja 250, which use the same engine, but they aren't exact by any means. For example, I can't test the ignitor because the connections aren't as illustrated in the manual. Unfortunately, there isn't a manual for the el250 available to my knowledge. Anyway, the resistance is listed as 2.1-3.2 ohms in the manual and two different meters I have range between 3.2 and 3.6 ohms for both coils, fluctuating up and down and never settling. Secondary resistance through the coil and plug wire is supposed to be between 12 and 16k ohms, and both meters show both coils over 19k.

    The engine has manually adjustable valves, but since it is water cooled, the procedure to get to them is pretty technical. I would like to tackle this as a last resort, and really am wondering if mis-adjusted valves could cause that problem. How likely is it that the valves are the issue, in other words?

    I purchased carb kits for the two carbs and am planning on tearing them down again and replacing the o-ring for the air screw, etc. What part of the carb would be the most likely cause for no top end? I'm thinking main jet or float needle, but I am very much an amateur. I have replacement parts in the kits for every part, but although they are made in Japan, they aren't Kawasaki parts.

    Any advice on these possibilities would be greatly appreciated. As soon as I get this bike running, I can work on my GS, so you can see how this post is GS related, can't you?

    #2
    Dunno much about the Kals, might be slides
    1981 GS650G , all the bike you need
    1980 GS1000G Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely

    Comment


      #3
      Slides seemed to operate freely and the carbs synched right up. What should I look for in regards to the slides? Sticking? Thanks for the reply.

      Comment


        #4
        When she runs like poo at your 55 mph, add some choke to see if it gets better or worse. If it is worse, then it is too rich, if it is lean, then it will get stronger.

        If the hotter it is the worse it runs, I suspect she may be too rich. Float levels may need to be adjusted.

        I also would take the time to adj valves, esp at 31G.

        Comment


          #5
          Sounds like th igniter if you have all air and fuel issues ironed out.
          K&N filters are supposed to be oiled.
          1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
          1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

          Comment


            #6
            Thanks for the replies so far. Unfortunately it is raining here, so I can't try the choke test yet. Chef, would you suggest I go back through the carbs again before getting another ignitor? I sure wish I could test it.

            Oh, and as for the K&N filter, it appears from the website that they come pre-oiled, so I guess it is oiled, but I haven't done anything else to it.
            Last edited by Guest; 05-05-2008, 07:51 PM. Reason: added info

            Comment


              #7
              I had an issue with a switch to a K & N filter a few years ago. Seems it flows more air and the bike began to run lean with a big dead spot at the final 25% of throttle. I wound up replacing the main jets with a couple sizes larger and had to fiddle quite a bit with mixture and needle position to get acceptable performance. It's okay now but I had no idea the filter swap would hit performance like that. I assumed it would be a simple plug and play and if anything I'd get an overall performance increase ( I learned differently). Not sure if that's whats going on with your wife's bike but it might be worth checking into a stock filter and see if that gets things sorted out somewhat. Did it have an oiled foam type originally?
              Last edited by Guest; 05-05-2008, 09:02 PM.

              Comment


                #8
                I really don't know what it had originally, but I should be able to find out on Bikebandit or the like. I suspect it was a cartridge filter, but it may have also been sleeved with an oiled foam outer. I'll check on that. Thanks for the reply, that is another thing to look at for sure judging by your experience.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Lost of power

                  Hi!
                  From experience! Remove the right timing cover to get access to the advance timing weights with springs. Behind the timing plate.Check to see if they spring back and fourth. Rust can cause them to stick and not advance causing you to lose power and over heat.
                  Also lack of 12 volt to the coils while running.Start engine and connect a volt meter -lead to ground or -on bat and touch positive lead to + coil side. You should have 12 volts or better while running,if not,check for faulty wiring or dirty connections.
                  The factory pre set air jet screw hidden on the top outlet side of the carbs can also be rusted and clogged with gunk. Drill out the tab with a 1/6" drill to screw a small sheet metal screw into the tab to pull out the plug with pliers. Be carefull not to drill too deep.No more than 1/8",not to damage the needle.Take a good qaulity flat head screw driver to remove.Some penatrant and patience working it slowly back and fourth till it losens up to unscrew all the way out.The best stuff I like to use to losen rusted bolts,is "Freeze off" from OREILY. If you have heads bolt nuts that are stuborn,try "Freeze off"!
                  You will be amazed! Follow the instructions on the can(very important)

                  Comment


                    #10
                    oil cooler on GS650GL

                    Does anyone know how to connect a oil cooler to a GS650GL engine?
                    Where are the ports to hook up?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      You have to tap the motor either from the oil filter cover or the oil sensor. Ask Renobruce. He has done a few eight valves.
                      1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
                      1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Well I got my hands on a "supplemental" manual, as Kawasaki calls it, for this little Eliminator 250. Tested the ignitor with the extremely helpful guide and boy was I surprised. Most of the resistance values were way out of spec, some with zero ohms that should have had resistance, and some with infinite resistance that should have been much, much lower.

                        It seems too simple, so I am worried. I need reassurance that the bike could have run in some fashion, given the fact that the ignitor appears to be complete toast. The manual warns to use an "official" Kawasaki tester. In fact they say "use only Kawasaki hand tester 57001-983 for this test. A tester other than the Kawasaki hand tester may show different readings." Surely a multimeter is a multimeter is a multimeter, right?

                        They only give that warning for the igniter and not for the ignition coils (which I tested an are pretty close to spec) or the pickup coils (not tested).

                        So could the bike run with a bad igniter? Chef1366 said that's what it could be, so I'm hoping.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Yes, it can run. Ask Saltymonk ;-)
                          1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
                          1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            No joy

                            I recieved the new "used" igniter from a cycle shop that specializes in selling recycled cycle electronics, and it is supposed to have been tested. I plugged it in and the bike behaves exactly the same way. I did not get out my multimeter to test it last night because obviously that didn't help. So the way I see it there are a few possibilities

                            The second igniter could be bad as well, but I think that's unlikely. It came from an ebay shop that had a great rating selling the same kind of stuff to all sorts of people. Also, I would think that an igniter that went bad wouldn't always behave the same way.

                            I could be an idiot and not know how to follow directions and test the think. I also find this unlikely, as I have used a multimeter for all kinds of things and found it to be really useful. So maybe the manual is wrong.

                            I tried operating the choke while at full speed (55mph) which I know works, and found absolutely no difference in engine behavior. To me, that seems to rule out fuel or air problems. Am I wrong on that? After the engine is warm, it seems to start "limping" around 3k under load, and sounds like it won't go over 5k under load. Guessing at this, because I have no tach.

                            So, I'm open to further suggestions. I don't know if valve adjustment could cause this problem or not, I just don't have any experience with it. Is there something on the bike that could fry an igniter as soon as you put it on? Just at a loss because the carbs are synched, and at idle the bike sounds great, and will rev all the way up smoothly with no load on it.

                            Help![-o<

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Anyone?

                              I'm going to pull the carbs apart again if I don't get some direction from someone. I really want to know if misadjusted or worn valves could cause this problem. If they cause this problem in a GS (which I don't know if they do or not) then it stands to reason it could be the problem in my wife's little Kaw.

                              My wife is beginning to doubt my abilities, and that is no good.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X