Calling all techs! New Engine Break In - How to?

[Mark M]

oh yea, i forgot to say to let it warm up completely. dont want to wreck it.

Very good point. It is OK to flog a new engine, but not a cold engine. That is a recipe for major damage. Yamaha says to let a new bike idle until the cooling fan cuts in (liquid cooled bikes, of course) before beating it on the first ride, to ensure everything is warmed up and ready to go. Sound advice there.

Mark

[MelodicMetalGod]

Very good point. It is OK to flog a new engine, but not a cold engine. That is a recipe for major damage. Yamaha says to let a new bike idle until the cooling fan cuts in (liquid cooled bikes, of course) before beating it on the first ride, to ensure everything is warmed up and ready to go. Sound advice there.

Mark

Where does Yamaha say that? Is there documentation that's contrary to the standard manual rhetoric of "take it easy"?

[MelodicMetalGod]

Thanks for all the great responses. I must say that I'm surprised that everybody seems to be of the "run it hard" break in method. Guess I know which way to go when I drive off the lot.

[tkent02]

Thanks for all the great responses. I must say that I'm surprised that everybody seems to be of the "run it hard" break in method. Guess I know which way to go when I drive off the lot.

Pretty sure the manufacturer's method is to reduce lawsuits from accidents that would invariably happen if inexperienced new owners were being advised to run the hell out of it.

[chef1366]

Pretty sure the manufacturer's method is to reduce lawsuits from accidents that would invariably happen if inexperienced new owners were being advised to run the hell out of it.

I know I know

WWWWAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

[Mark M]

Where does Yamaha say that? Is there documentation that's contrary to the standard manual rhetoric of "take it easy"?

I do not have the documentation in front of me. It's not in the owner's manual, but in the shop paperwork that accompanies the info on uncrating, assembling and test riding the bike before delivery. The warm up comment is directed at the initial test ride and they simply want the bike completely warm before the ride happens. The part about beating it was my addition... But I have to say I have known a few dealer mechanics and none of them ever babied a bike on the PDI ride. Depending on the mechanic, a lot of bikes probably are 50% run in before the customer ever touches them.

Mark

[Footy.]

I have an interesting word document about running in engines, if someone can tell me how to post it here i will.

It was written by Mike Booth, a consultant engineer in the field of engine reconditioning. I am in the engine reconditioning industry, and Mike is called on as a court recognised expert witness when engine rebuilders get sued for one reason or another.

I should say at this point that the first fill oil is very important when running in new rings. No semi or fully synth oils to start with.

Footy.

[tkent02]

I have an interesting word document about running in engines, if someone can tell me how to post it here i will.

Could you please email it to me?
Thanks!

[Footy.]

Could you please email it to me?
Thanks!

Will do, Cheers. Will you PM me with your email addy?

Footy

[MelodicMetalGod]

I have an interesting word document about running in engines, if someone can tell me how to post it here i will.

It was written by Mike Booth, a consultant engineer in the field of engine reconditioning. I am in the engine reconditioning industry, and Mike is called on as a court recognised expert witness when engine rebuilders get sued for one reason or another.

I should say at this point that the first fill oil is very important when running in new rings. No semi or fully synth oils to start with.

Footy.

If it's just a word document, you s/b able to simply highlight the text, copy and then paste right into the body of a post here. I'd be very interested to see that material. Thanks!

[Footy.]

If it's just a word document, you s/b able to simply highlight the text, copy and then paste right into the body of a post here. I'd be very interested to see that material. Thanks!

Yea, but i found there was too much text for one post, so here it is in two sections.

Footy.

[Footy.]

PART ONE:


THE DEFINITIVE GUIDE TO RUNNING-IN


Nowhere in our industry is there such a hotch potch of bunk, bull and old wives’ tales as in the running-in department. “Don’t exceed 50 mph for the first 1,000 miles” – in a Jaguar XJ6 4.2! “Let it tick over for a couple of hours to loosen off”. “Having spent a lot of money on having the engine reconditioned, it makes sense to put a high quality service oil in it” – and so on. One day, I might just write a small book, listing as many of these sayings as I can remember, calling it “HOW TO WRECK YOUR ENGINE” and awarding each saying points out of a hundred for stupidity.

Let’s try and blow away the myths and cobwebs and come up with some sensible methods for running in both petrol and diesel engines. First though, let’s look at and define what we are trying to achieve in running in.

Any engine which has undergone a major rebuild needs to be run in for best results. The running in process is the means by which new components are bedded together for long term performance. The principal areas of consideration are cylinder bores/ piston rings, crankshaft journals/bearings and camshaft/followers.

Good as any machining operation is, the old engineering saying that nothing is perfectly round, flat or square is very true. Because of this, components which are brought together for the first time and then move against each other will have asperities (peaks and troughs) which are removed in the initial running.

Put four new batteries in a flashlight and switch on. What you see is the best you are ever going to see from that combination – you get maximum efficiency from the start. This is not the case with piston rings. New piston rings do not seal – first they have to create a compatible bedding surface with the cylinder bore. Then, and not before, they will seal.

If I have said it once, I have said it ten thousand times – if a piston ring does not bed in, it will not work.

Piston rings are not seals – they make seals in conjunction with the cylinder bores. It’s like flour and bread – first use the flour to make the bread and then put your butter and jam on it. You do not put the butter and jam onto the flour.

The running-in process includes, therefore, the making of the seal which will ultimately contain the power of the expanding gas and also the lubricating oil – arguably the most important facet of the newly reconditioned engine.

Having established what we are trying to do, let’s now have a detailed look at what one big diesel engine manufacturer recommends:-

ENGINE RUNNING-IN SCHEDULE

Note: Do not run the engine at low or high idle speeds for long periods after installing new rings or liners, since the rings will not bed in during idle operation.

Start
Prior to starting, make sure that:

1 All bearings are pre-lubricated
2 The crank case is filled with specified engine oil
3 The cooling system is filled to the correct level
Running in
1 Start and run the engine at ¾ rated engine speed with no load until operating temperature (80 85ºC) is reached – covering the radiator if necessary. DO NOT run for over 10 minutes.
2 Re-torque cylinder head bolts
Important: DO NOT run the engine longer than 15 minutes before re-torquing cylinder head bolts.
3 Continue according to the following chart.
With Dynamometer

Engine RPM Load
Percentage Time in
Minutes
1,000 40 5
2,000 50 5
Rated speed 80 10
100 rpm below rated speed 50 10
Without Dynamometer (in vehicle running-in procedure)

Engine RPM Load
Percentage Time in
Minutes
¾ rated speed Light 5
¾ rated speed Medium 15
Rated speed Full 20
After Running in
Re-tighten manifold bolts and/or stud nuts.
Check valve clearances and re-adjust as necessary.
We can now see that this manufacturer advocates a running-in time of only 40 minutes without dynamometer and spends 20 of those first 40 minutes with full load at rated speed. Even using the dynamometer, the advocated running-in time is still just 30 minutes with 80% load being applied after a mere 10 minutes.
Compare this with the coach operator. He operates tour coaches which go, for example, on ten day tours down the Rhine Valley carrying 40 or so people and their luggage but what does this coach operator do after he has had the engine remanufactured? He puts it on school contract to “prove” it. It carries 30 children who weigh about four stones wet through, carrying two or three school books and it stops two or three times down every street to drop them off. If you were asked to write a formula for wrecking a newly reconditioned engine you couldn’t get any better than this. Low load, stop/start operation is death to the newly reconditioned diesel. The by-products of combustion will glaze the bores, thus preventing the bedding-in of the piston rings and, therefore, the piston rings will not work efficiently and engine performance will be way down – but oil consumption will be way up!
If the coach operator were to send the coach back down the Rhine Valley with a full complement of adults and their luggage this would be the finest way in which to proceed as you can see from the running-in schedules previously given but this inane desire to “prove” the engine appears to take pride of place over all logical thought.
Let’s now look at another major diesel manufacturer’s recommendations to see if we can witness a pattern emerging from all the advice:-
1 With the engine “STOP” engaged, crank the engine until oil pressure is observed on the oil gauge. Release “STOP” and when the engine starts, run at 800 1,000 rpm with no load for 3 5 minutes to check for oil pressure, unusual noises, leaks, etc. Shut down the engine and check oil and coolant levels. Correct as necessary.
2 Use a loaded trailer or body and operate the truck through all gear changes for approximately half an hour with rpm not exceeding 1,800 except as necessary to make gear changes.
3 Proceed to a motorway and operate the truck at rated speed for 30 60 minutes.
4 Check high idle and low idle of engine.
5 Re-torque heads, adjust valves, re-tighten hose clamps, manifold nuts/screws etc.
Again we can see the recommendation that the engine is made to work and work hard almost immediately after being put back into service. You will note that the second procedure described recommends the use of a loaded trailer or body, which is most important. What do you tell the council refuse department, whose trucks, by definition, must go out empty and stop many times down each street to collect the refuse. The plain truth is that this vehicle, when put back into operation following an engine rebuild, must be run in using synthetic load and must not be put back onto refuse collection duties until it is completely run in.

[Footy.]

PART TWO:


At this point it may be helpful to deal with the question of lubricating oils. Under no circumstances should normal service oils be used during the running-in process. The high level of protection offered by these oils would prevent the correct bedding-in procedure to take place, ie the wearing down of asperities and the consequent establishing of a correct bore to piston relationship. Secondly, bore glazing could easily occur. This is the deposition of combustion by-products on the cylinder bores. The honing pattern can still be seen beneath these by-products but, since the piston rings would not be touching the actual bore – they would be running over the glaze – this would prevent the creation of a compatible bedding surface and, as previously stated, if a piston ring does not bed in, it will not work.
Service oils offered by the various lubricant manufacturers are now so good that the use of an initial fill or running-in oil can be classed as obligatory and it is a clever man who profits while at the same time making sure that he gets no “come-backs” and so it is recommended that all engine reconditioners stock and sell initial fill or running-in oils. If a newly reconditioned engine needs them, the engine reconditioner may as well sell them and make the profit on the sale, whilst at the same time preventing “come-backs” under warranty.
The best type of running-in oil is one that provides mechanical protection yet, at the same time, permits bedding-in to take place. Wide span multigrades use a base oil in line with the cold temperature viscosity that is then thickened with polymers. Ideal running-in oils are monogrades with only moderate levels of performance additives.
Monograde oils have the disadvantage of relatively poor cold flow properties which hinder cranking speed and lubrication of remote engine components. With the advent of hydraulic valve lifters, heavy monogrades would be unsuitable. An ideal initial fill oil is one with a viscosity equating to SAE 20W/30 by using high viscosity index (HVI) base oils. This provides high film strength for maximum component protection, yet with reasonable flow properties to overcome other problems, plus additives which provide protection but do not inhibit the bedding-in process.
For those customers who complain they didn’t have to go through this procedure when the car was new, it can be explained that new engines are usually run in by the manufacturer during a carefully controlled bench procedure whilst reconditioned engines in the field are run in during the first 500 1,000 miles of road work. Further, it is essential that the driver of the vehicle being run in is aware that he also has a part to play. The main criteria are:-
1 Do not over-rev the engine
2 Do not be too gentle – moderation is the key issue
3 The running-in oil must be drained after no more than 1,000 miles and the engine re-filled with the correct grade of service oil.
Anyone wanting further information or guidance on the subject of lubricants is invited to telephone Millers Oils in Brighouse, West Yorkshire, and speak to their Technical Adviser, Mr Mike Fenton, on 01484 713201.
Apart from operating this superb back-up service, Millers also offer “Glazebuster Oils”. Should any reconditioner get into trouble with arrested ring bedding due to cylinder bore glazing, the use of glazebuster oil is infinitely preferable and far cheaper than stripping the engine and physically de-glazing the cylinder bores but for precise directions on how to use the oils, please telephone Graham Lord at Millers on the number given.
With diesels, the main points are the use of a specially formulated running-in oil and making the engine work almost from square one. The problems will occur when the engine is put onto low load stop/start operation or – perish the thought – where the driver sits with the engine ticking over so that he can keep warm!
Petrol engines are not just as critical but, again, it is strongly recommended that an initial fill, running-in oil is used in preference to normal service oil during the running-in period, which should be between 500 and 1,000 miles. The message is do not be too gentle. Whilst the engine should not be raced from one end of a motorway to the other, it should be given a reasonable amount of work to do and my advice is to forget that the engine has been reconditioned and drive it as normal. No one has yet come back to me having seized an engine but hundreds of drivers have complained of oil consumption through incorrect running-in procedures, so the moral is clear. It’s not a question of high speed, rather it is a question of making the engine work and it is in this area that most of the problems come to light.
There is in fact a select little group of engines that includes Jaguar XJ6 4.2, Rover 3.5 V8, MGB 1800 and several more high performance engines which can exceed the national speed limits in second gear and never, never work hard enough to “get a sweat on” – and therein lies the problem. Unless the engine works reasonably hard there is the ever present danger of bore glazing and, once the bores are glazed, the piston rings can never bed in. Fortunately, because we are looking at load and not speed, it is possible fit a caravan on the back of the car or, in the absence of a tow ball, to fill the car with passengers – preferably fat ones – and take it on a fairly long trip. As a last resort, the car can be ballasted with, for example, bags of sand, which should ensure that the engine is given some work to do during the running-in period.
I remember saying this to a caller from Boston, Massachusetts, whose MGB was allegedly using more oil than fuel and, to make matters worse, this was his third engine where oil consumption had been a problem. He thought it was a “leg pull” when he was told to load the car up with bags of sand and then go out there and get the rings to bed in but, when he ‘phoned back three weeks later, he said, “This is the best MG I have ever broken in but I really did think you were joking.” It was nice of him to pay for a transatlantic call to express his thanks and I do hope that the garden centre took the “ballast” back for credit but I suppose he could always hire out the ballast kit to other owners!
In summary, therefore, always use a specially formulated running-in oil and never a normal service oil when the engine is put back to work. Following this, give the engine some work to do and do not let it tick over for any period or use it on stop/start light duty operation. Once an engine has been run in properly, you can use it for whatever purpose you want but until then strict formalities have to be observed if you are to avoid all the pitfalls.

11 April 2000

[MelodicMetalGod]

Footy,

Thanks very much for posting that Mike Booth wisdom. Although it was primarily regarding rebuilt diesel engines, the overall concept/point, once again, seems to be "Don't baby it and don't max it out but do run the engine substantially from the get go".

Wow. I'm REALLY glad I started this topic because I was definitely of the "baby it" mentality. Makes me wonder what car (my only ever new car) would be capable of had I not followed the owners manual recommendations.

[lecroy]

Good post!

I used to just give them full throttle but couldn't afford the results. Now days I use the same GTX20W50 for breakin and normal use. I start out using pump gas. I run them at idle for about 5 minutes, turn them off check for leaks and bring them to a full cool. Then run repeat the idle run for 10 minutes. Then 20, then 40 then 1 hour. Fully cooling the engine between each run. I have two large fans blowing on the old air cooled GS motors to keep them cool. Once I get one hour of idle the engine is again fully cooled and then I start it and run it under load. I bring them up to about 7PSI. I normally do this in the driveway using the family car to hold the bike in place. The house will also work. This sets the rings. Then the engine is then cooled again and I head to the track or take it to a dead country road. Hard to find anything flat, streight and unpopulated in this area, so I normally go to the track. I start out at 60 feet then 300 feet, 1/8 mile, 1000 foot and then full passes. Checking plugs heat lines between runs and making adjustments as needed. After this, I normally recheck the compression. If everything seems good, I change the oil and filter then call it a day.