R/R toasted or grouding problem?

[J_C]

Sorry, I'm an idiot. I meant that I was using the diode function. And while using the diode test function, I got 1s going in both directions. I'm going to buy a slightly nicer auto ranging meter today from kragen, read the manual, and then test again as well as performing the stator papers.

The meter I'm going to get also has a "battery load test" no idea what it is, while read the directions hoping it helps identify potential problems with the battery as well (as you were mentioning, internal short etc)

[bakalorz]

Sorry, I'm an idiot. I meant that I was using the diode function. And while using the diode test function, I got 1s going in both directions. I'm going to buy a slightly nicer auto ranging meter today from kragen, read the manual, and then test again as well as performing the stator papers.

The meter I'm going to get also has a "battery load test" no idea what it is, while read the directions hoping it helps identify potential problems with the battery as well (as you were mentioning, internal short etc)

The meter you have should be adequate if its working.

Check that you haven't blown the fuse inside the meter, you will need to remove two screws to do it. They may have even provided a spare if you did

The battery load test is likely to be for 1.5v alkaline cells (AA, AAA, C, D cells)

If the meter is working, 1s in both directions means the RR diode is blown open. I would find it unlikely that all 6 diodes are blown though ...

Radioshack has diodes at 2 for 99 cents as the following part #s: 276-1101, 276-1102, 276-1103, or 276-1104 if you want a known good diode to test your meter.

[J_C]

Awesome, thanks Martin. I'll hold off on buying the meter until I've checked the fuse on this one. Many thanks.

[J_C]

ok, I tried to fix the old meter, it was toasted. So I bought a nice new auto ranging one to check out the r/r. These were my readings using the diode function:

Red mm to red r/r, black mm to yellow wires: OL, OL, OL (??)
Black mm to red r/r, red mm to yellow wires: .476, .476, .486
Black mm to bw r/r, red mm to yellow wires: OL, OL, OL (??)
Red mm to bw r/r, black mm to yellow wires: .473, .485, .484



For the crap of it, I went back to step 1 of the stator papers and took some voltage readings.

Idle: 14.08
2500: 13.8
5000: 13.2

According to the stator papers, the system is "perfectly ok." Why do I feel like not everything is ok?

[bakalorz]

ok, I tried to fix the old meter, it was toasted. So I bought a nice new auto ranging one to check out the r/r.

Since the old meter was toasted (what was wrong that it was toasted by the way) its hard to know if the info you gave before was valid.

I still doubt that there is a leakage problem, but to be thorough you might want to check the key off CURRENT drain again.
Start at the highest current (10 amp ?) and work your way down

These were my readings using the diode function:

Red mm to red r/r, black mm to yellow wires: OL, OL, OL (??)
Black mm to red r/r, red mm to yellow wires: .476, .476, .486
Black mm to bw r/r, red mm to yellow wires: OL, OL, OL (??)
Red mm to bw r/r, black mm to yellow wires: .473, .485, .484

That is what you should get

For the crap of it, I went back to step 1 of the stator papers and took some voltage readings.

Idle: 14.08
2500: 13.8
5000: 13.2

According to the stator papers, the system is "perfectly ok." Why do I feel like not everything is ok?

I would like to see at least 13.5 at all RPMs, but where you are at is marginally ok.

If you haven't done it yet:
Run a direct wire from the regulator ground to the battery negative.
Replace the stator bullet connectors with spade type connectors.

Also, clean all the connections in the fusebox, and any connectors in the positive path between the r/r and the battery.

I harp on that stuff because in some cases it can fix marginal or non-functioning charging systems.

After all that stuff, come back and we'll see where you are.

[J_C]

Since the old meter was toasted (what was wrong that it was toasted by the way) its hard to know if the info you gave before was valid.

The voltage was reading way low compared to a known good meter, the diode function and several others no longer worked even with a new fuse. I think I killed it when I accidentally had the red lead plugged into the unfused post and touched it to the battery. Good thing this was only $12. The new one was around 30 so I'll be much more careful.

I still doubt that there is a leakage problem, but to be thorough you might want to check the key off CURRENT drain again.
Start at the highest current (10 amp ?) and work your way down

I'll certainly give this a go. I remeasured and the voltage was still there (.75 v) but wasn't sure which amp selection to use... DC10A (unfused) or DCmA (unfused)

That is what you should get

That's certainly good news. The stator papers said I should have a reading of 1.5v or higher on those two tests

I would like to see at least 13.5 at all RPMs, but where you are at is marginally ok.

If you haven't done it yet:
Run a direct wire from the regulator ground to the battery negative.
Replace the stator bullet connectors with spade type connectors.

Also, clean all the connections in the fusebox, and any connectors in the positive path between the r/r and the battery.

I harp on that stuff because in some cases it can fix marginal or non-functioning charging systems.

After all that stuff, come back and we'll see where you are.

Thanks Martin! As per your advice in your sig, I already ran a wire directly from the r/r ground point directly to the battery. I also replaced all stator and R/R connectors to stator and fusebox with spades. However, I have NOT gone into the fusebox. I will unscrew it and flip it over to clean the back and I'll also clean up the fuse holders. THANK YOU for your help!

[J_C]

Tonight I took the fuse box off. Inside the back didn't look so bad, it's just that all the copper has tarnished, including where the fuses go. I put a copper wheel on the dremel and polished all the fuse contact points, sprayed the 4 wire square plug and back internals of the fusebox with electrical connection cleaner, and tried to get as much dirt out as possible, if it existed. Couldnt get the wires out of the square plug, but when I pointed a flashlight in there I saw a reflection so I'm hoping the contact points are good.

I'm hoping that cleaning these contact points will mean less resistance on the path to postive battery; the old bullet connection from fuse to battery hyas already been replaced.

Will try and post up some new readings on the amperage tomorrow to double check that drainage thing

[J_C]

Martin,

You were right, the drainage is not worth worrying about. Its only .08 mA. To test if the battery discharge is a short within the battery, I have disconnected the (-) terminal from the rest of the system and will monitor it. It is presently at 12.68 V, for record keeping.

Though the fuse contact points do not appear to be the cause of the miniscule drain, I am hoping that perhaps cleaning them will fix my less than ideal charging numbers. I will be firing up the bike saturday morning to test (I get home too late from work usually to bother the neighbors)

[J_C]

Add'l info; Help needed!

After 4 days disconnected from ground the battery read 12.63, for a charge drop of just over .1v a day. So I think that might just be a battery issue.


After cleaning up the fuse box, I have run the bike again. The charging numbers remain the same.

More Pressing:
The connections for wires coming and going from the r/r are getting RIDICULOUSLY hot, after a very short amount of time (a minute or two). Now, it may be that just two wires are getting hot and they're heating the others in the bundle, but I know for SURE that the Red and White/Blue connections are steamin'.

This is an issue I was aware of previously, but I thought that after trimming back the wires and replacing the old bullets with spades I had fixed the problem. Apparantly I have not.

Anyone with any ideas, please post. It seems I lost Martin's interest 8-[ :-D

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. J_C,

Does one leg of your stator run up through a headlight switch then back to the r/r?


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[J_C]

Mr. Cliff,

Yes, G/W does (becomes R/W). However, I didn't notice these to be the main aggresors in this situation. Any insight you have is a thousand times appreciated.

[bakalorz]

After 4 days disconnected from ground the battery read 12.63, for a charge drop of just over .1v a day. So I think that might just be a battery issue.


After cleaning up the fuse box, I have run the bike again. The charging numbers remain the same.

More Pressing:
The connections for wires coming and going from the r/r are getting RIDICULOUSLY hot, after a very short amount of time (a minute or two). Now, it may be that just two wires are getting hot and they're heating the others in the bundle, but I know for SURE that the Red and White/Blue connections are steamin'.

This is an issue I was aware of previously, but I thought that after trimming back the wires and replacing the old bullets with spades I had fixed the problem. Apparantly I have not.

Anyone with any ideas, please post. It seems I lost Martin's interest 8-[ :-D

You didn't lose my interest, it was just that my wife was complaining about me neglecting the kids ...

Also, I didn't really have much to say about the previous posts, and was waiting to see what your testing would come up with.

The wires getting really hot is significant, so hopefully will lead to a resolution.

Does the whole length of the wires seem to be getting hot or just near the connector ?

If just near connector then you should probably replace the connectors.

If you don't have any, you could try the following:
(but realise that it might be kind of jury rigged)

Recrimp both connectors, in case the crimp was not tight enough

Spade connectors that are tight enough are moderately difficult to take apart.
If they are too loose it's possible to tighten loose spade connectors, take the two apart, and then SLIGHTLY squeeze the female one using a pair of pliers.

In case the connectors have light internal corrosion, take them apart and put them back together a couple of times. Hopefully this will wear through any corrosion. Do this after making sure they are tight as above.

To prevent them from corroding, put a glob of dielectric grease in before you mate them the final time.

Then retest and see if they still get hot.

[J_C]

Hi martin! Thanks for the response. The connectors were all replaced less than a month ago, but I checked for corrosion in case, also put on some more dialectic grease.

The connectors are very snug, difficult to connect and disconnect. They're also insulated so should be very little corrosion.

I recrimped them about as much as they'll crimp. I still got some heat coming off them, charging numbers remain the same. I'm wondering if it's possible that damage to the wires before I got the bike resulted in them burning / corroding (?) within the insulation for several inches back towards the r/r. It was difficult to tell whether the heat was originating in the connector and conducting to the wires, or if the wires were heating up on their own...

[bakalorz]

Hi martin! Thanks for the response. The connectors were all replaced less than a month ago, but I checked for corrosion in case, also put on some more dialectic grease.

The connectors are very snug, difficult to connect and disconnect. They're also insulated so should be very little corrosion.

I recrimped them about as much as they'll crimp. I still got some heat coming off them, charging numbers remain the same. I'm wondering if it's possible that damage to the wires before I got the bike resulted in them burning / corroding (?) within the insulation for several inches back towards the r/r. It was difficult to tell whether the heat was originating in the connector and conducting to the wires, or if the wires were heating up on their own...

Ummm ... I don't know what to tell you ...

Are they still ridiculously hot, or better than before ?

If better, try doing a few more mating/unmating cycles maybe.

You asked, so I guess I'll say it's possible that the wires are corroded under the insulation ... but it wouldn't be my first guess... on the other hand, I dunno ...
A more likely guess to me would be that they were corroded when you crimped them, leading to a poor connection in the crimp itself.

You seem to have gone through most of the obvious stuff, so its hard to try to troubleshoot over the net.

[J_C]

Thanks so much. That's definitely a possibility. It seems a little better than before, so it might be a combination of the two. Perhaps I should get some tinner's fluid or whatever that stuff's called? Shouldn't that clear up any corrosion that may exist and open the door to better connectivity? I got a new soldering iron tip so I'm willing to try that as well.

Just took the bike on a 20 minute spin. As soon as I parked I took the seat off and checked the wires; they felt reasonable. The battery went from 12.63 before to 12.76 after.