Head gasket GS1000G questions

[catbed]

my head rocket when i had the oring in too. thats why you tighten the four bolts in the middle first, not the ones on the ends.

[SqDancerLynn1]

If the head gasket covers the O ring grouve, I would leave the O ring out. Makes sense that the gasket is an updated version....

[Matchless]

If the head gasket covers the O ring grouve, I would leave the O ring out. Makes sense that the gasket is an updated version....

Lynn,
Your reply and also psyguy's is starting to make a lot of sense and I feel that o-ring was left of the 2006 set out puposefully. Especially now that I have found that the MLS gasket has an outer layer of Viton rubber which was not used on the older MLS types. I have sent off a query to Athena themselves and will share their reply if I get any.
Thanks for all your interest and replies.

[Suzuki_Don]

Hi Andre, I've kept out of this discussion, but have been following it closely. A couple of observations. I have a Vesrah gasket set for the 550 and it has the larger cutout for the cam tunnel with the accompanying square "O" ring.

Suzuki did produce a model that did not have the cam tunnel "O" ring. this was the GS650, it had a gasket only and no "O" ring. I have only become aware of this because I am doing the 650 top end conversion on my 550. I agree with Lynn that I would leave the "O" ring out. Particularly after looking at the 650 parts diagram. If it seals on the 650 motor then I see no reason why it would not seal on the 1000.

As PSY says there is plenty of metal between the cam tunnel and the cylinder bore. Including the top of the cylinder liner which is at least 3/8" wide.

[Matchless]

Don, does the 650 have a channel for the o-ring at all or is it flat metal like the rest around the cylinders?
At this stage I am 100% sure that the oil seals around the end studs are not required as the MLS head gasket with the Viton lining will seal that properly and that is the reason for them not being supplied with this new gasket and the holes not even making provision for it.
I also feel that the Viton layer on the narrow part surrounding the cam chain opening should seal properly, supported by the fact that the o-ring is most likely not provided for exactly that reason and then further supported by the fact that the PO reused the old o-ring gasket under the headgasket as he obviously also did not get one supplied and most likely was not sure on the change.
Hopefully Athena themselves will be able to confirm something here. I have the Athena part number as P400510850951 for the older complete set with 66 pieces and the newer complete set P400510850951/1 with 61 pieces. If you subtrack 4 endstud seals and the rectangular o-ring, then you land up with 61.
If Athena can just officially confirm this as their set is real value for money at the price compared to some others.

[Suzuki_Don]

Hi Andre. See pic below. this is one of the 650 barrels I have for the conversion. You are right there is no depression or groove for the "O" ring to sit.

It runs with a standard head gasket arrangement. No washers on corner studs either I think. I am waiting on my gasket set for the 650 to arrive from the U.S. But the corner holes in the pics I have seen do not look large enough to take any crushable washers on the corner studs.

Another matter of interest on the 650 also is that the corner holes in the cylinder base gasket are round and not oval as on the low pressure oiling system motors like we have.

[Matchless]

Don,
After seeing this I had a quick look at some other models and it seems as if the o-ring was dropped on some 1100's as well. Be interesting to see if your Vesra is also a MLS.
I have my new rings and just need to set the end gaps. I found quite an ingenius method to grind them down on a website.

[catbed]

so should i remove the oring in my engine? i did notice low cold compression in the middle two cylinders. 115 95 95 115 from 1 to 4. could this be the cause?

[Matchless]

so should i remove the oring in my engine? i did notice low cold compression in the middle two cylinders. 115 95 95 115 from 1 to 4. could this be the cause?

catbed,
No, definitely do not remove the o-ring. It also should not affect your compression, this is just the seal around the cam chain. It seems as if the type of headgasket is also important and whether your head/cylinder is designed with a slot/groove for such a seal.
OK if your head gasket is leaking from the cylinders then you may have a problem but this may not be related. At this stage no-one is sure that omitting these o-rings when using the latest MLS gaskets is correct, we are just throwing ideas around in the hope that someone in the know pops in and gives us some guidance.

[Art Lacroix]

Here's a handy reference

http://alpha-sports.com/spst/1980%20GS1000G/12.gif

Art

[Art Lacroix]

with parts list

http://alpha-sports.com/spst/1980%20GS1000G/12.htm

works better with the parts list. The 4 copper crush washers are listed as "gaskets" & they go on the corners under the acorn nuts, the rest of the head nuts get washers.

Art

[Matchless]

Art,
Thanks for your input, the parts list actually only refers to the OEM gaskets and they definitely had a cut out and work in conjunction with the o-ring gasket. The acorn nuts take the 4 solid copper washers, but in addition to those there are also 4 hollow round copper crush washers. The newer after market head gaskets are diffferent to the older OEM as shown in the parts list and that is actually what we are trying to get clarity on.
But thanks, any input is appreciated.

[psyguy]

so, matchless, where're you at?
cant think for too long...gotta ride that thing! :-D



seriously, it's a pain when you cant get a reliable info on something that important
i struggled with a similar issue myself

.

[Matchless]

so, matchless, where're you at?
cant think for too long...gotta ride that thing! :-D

seriously, it's a pain when you cant get a reliable info on something that important
i struggled with a similar issue myself

.

Motor top end is apart and I am waiting for the piston circlips. Have also sent a mail to Athena, noticed they have opened it, but whether they will reply is another matter.
I will most probably pull the bottom end out of the frame to clean it up properly and spray the frame.
So I have time, and still hoping someone with practical experience on these head gaskets will chime in soon.
If nothing further is revealed I will install the new MLS head gasket without the o-ring.

[Suzuki_Don]

Hey Andre I have my Norton for sale and as we have spoken about it a few times I thought I would let you know so you could have a look at it. If you search on EBAY under key words "Norton Dominator 500" you can have a squiz at it.
Cheers
Don