LED turn signal question.

[82 GS1100GK]

I have LED lights on my GS1100GK and I have picked up the heavy duty flasher unit for $3.00 at a autoparts store and did a test and the lights still cancel after turning and the lights are very bright. I bought the heavy duty flasher on advice of another biker who said the heavy duty flasher bases the flash on the bulb. If you don't change flasher the lights will only come on and that is it. I also changed the tail light and it really made a difference that is for sure.

[MN_gs550]

found relay

Steve,
I'm new to this site but I stumbled across this thread .
Funny thing is i have the small led signals and was looking into a digital speedo and found this relay that will help you out .

http://www.electrosport.com/products/product-detail-2027.php

good luck and keep me posted on how it turns out.

AL

[Steve]

Thanks, but the issue is not finding a flasher that will work with LED signals.

The issue is finding a flasher that will work with LED signals AND retain the self-cancelling feature.


I just came in from playing with the '81 and the '82 850s. I have found that, of the three wires on the flasher, the Orange/Green wire receives power in, the Light Blue is the output to the selector switch, and the Black/Blue wire goes to the control unit.

There are seven wires on the control unit:
Black/White is a ground
Orange/Green wire is 12 volt power IN
Blue/Red goes to the distance sensor
Black/Red returns from the distance sensor
Light Green/Black goes to the selector switch and appears to receive power from its Orange/Red wire when either signal is SET
Brown/Yellow also goes to the selector switch and appears to ground to the Black/White wire when the selector in in the center CANCEL position
The Black/Blue wire goes to the flasher. I am guessing that it's to control whether the flasher operates.

Using a test light, when I touched the Black/Blue wire, the flashing stopped, apparently the test light was providing enough ground to cancel the signal. I will have to try again with my meter, as it will not load the circuit as much as the test light does.

.

[Matchless]

Any further progress on this one?

[Steve]

Regrettably, no.


I spent three of the last four months of last year working out of state.
By the time I got home for Christmas, my garage had been turned into a storage facility with barely a path going through it.
A couple of weeks ago, my wife and I started going through the stuff to see what was staying and what was leaving, either via Goodwill or BFI.
We made a serious dent in the amount of "stuff". This past weekend, we found my work bench.
I had found a small part of the 9-foot bench last fall to be able to do some carb work, but this is the first time the entire length has been cleared for at least 10 years.
I think one more day of some serious cleaning out there and I can re-classify it as a work area.

Once the work starts, I have Mike Riddle's bike to work on and three sets of carbs to do before I can start working on our bikes.
Her bike just needs some general maintenance stuff and a new r/r.
The list for my bike is a bit longer, and includes timing belts and tensioners, spark plugs and air filters (yes, there's more than one).
If I have time, both bikes need steering head bearings changed, but we have gotten used to them in the condition they are in, so priority is low on them.

.

[Matchless]

I have a similar problem, also so many pending things and found that it is also due to space, but in my case too much of it, but in my wallet.

If you do catch up again and manage to look at this and figure out any more let us know.
I am looking at converting some truck lights so that the led cluster with the low/high controller will fit into the flashers. It seems as if these have a reflector for each individual led and thus much brighter than a substitute led bulb.
Keep well

[Spyder]

Wait! ! ! Your saying my 83' gs 750 has self canceling signals?!?!
I'll have to try that out.
on a side note, I don't see how the flasher it self would affect the canceling mechanism. In 82' I don't wouldn't think this system is that sophisticated.
Just a thought...

[Matchless]

Wait! ! ! Your saying my 83' gs 750 has self canceling signals?!?!
I'll have to try that out.
on a side note, I don't see how the flasher it self would affect the canceling mechanism. In 82' I don't wouldn't think this system is that sophisticated.
Just a thought...

At the time it was quite innovative. I can assure you the flasher unit and the self cancelling unit works quite well. I am busy looking into it at the moment and I can just confirm that on my GS1000G 1980 the self cancelling unit requires a special flasher unit to work. If someone swops the flasher unit with a generic one the self cancelling function will not work.

[Steve]

Wait! ! ! Your saying my 83' gs 750 has self canceling signals?!?!
I'll have to try that out.
on a side note, I don't see how the flasher it self would affect the canceling mechanism. In 82' I don't wouldn't think this system is that sophisticated.
Just a thought...

Check #1. First, look at the switch. Does it say AUTO or AUTO TURN somewhere on the face? Maybe it's worn off, so go to check #2.
Check #2. Another way to tell is to feel the switch. The non-cancelling switch only has three positions, and there are firm detents for each position. The auto-cancelling system has five positions. Three where the switch will stay when put there, and two on the ends that are spring-loaded. For example: when you start the left turn sequence, you push the switch into position #1 and it returns to position #2. It will stay there until you move it for another turn. If you move the switch to position #3 while the signals are flashing, they will be cancelled. To start the right signals flashing after you have done a left turn, you have to move the switch from #2 all the way to #5, then it will return to #4.

I still have not tested the system, but the stock flasher relay has three terminals that are labelled B, L, and C. The B is connected to power (Battery). The L is connected to the lights (Load), the C is connected to the control unit (Control). It is my opinion that there is a switch of some sort (might just be a transistor) inside the flasher unit along with the thermally-activated flasher unit. I think that switch turns on power to the relay, based on what the control unit is telling it. The status of that line seems to be the only thing that changes to cancel the turn signals after sufficient time and distance have happened. You can use a standard 2-prong flasher as many here have done, and it will flash the signals quite well. The trick is to be able to use that control wire to activate a relay to allow power to get to the flasher. So ... if, indeed, that is the way the system works, yes, they were that sophisticated back in '82. Then, again, I'm not sure what the smallest bike was that had self-cancelling signals. I'm reasonably sure the 650 did not have them, I know for a fact that the 850 did, just not sure whether the 750 did or not.

Using a standard automotive-type 3-prong flasher won't work with our bikes. Well, the flashers will work, but they won't self-cancel. On those flashers, the third prong is usually a ground connection, so it would always ground out the output of the control unit. The signals would still flash if the other two terminals match up to the bike terminals as far as function. I have seen different arrangements of terminals on the 3-prong flashers, with some of them having the ground pin in the middle, instead of at one end, so those flashers won't work in the bikes at all.

The only testing I have managed to accomplish so far was to start the signals flashing, then touch the C terminal with my test light to see if it was hot. When I touched the light, the signals cancelled, and the test light did not come on. That is why I want to do the same thing with my digital meter, as it will not load the line as much, thinking it has been grounded by the control unit.

If anyone else has any interest in this, please feel free to pick up the ball and run with it. It might be at least another month before I can get around to experimentation. Gotta get some cleaning and repair work done before I start playing.

[cruz del sur]

sounds like we can expect a pictorial if not a video-tutorial on cliff's website 8-[

not that i'm complaining :-D

.

Actually, Cliff has one. I have it copied in the computer, but don't have the URL.

Found it. Here it is: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...eplacement.pdf

[cruz del sur]

I actually already did change to the flasher and took out the self canceling. Now, I have a question. If I remember correctly, my 70-something also had a right side turn signal switch. I like the idea of being able to turn on the switch with both hands or, even better to be able to have both signals at the same time (warning signs) anyone knows if there are right hand switches and what year they are???

[Steve]

Actually, Cliff has one. I have it copied in the computer, but don't have the URL.

Found it. Here it is: http://members.dslextreme.com/users/storagecliff/images/turn_signal_relay_replacement.pdf

Nice tutorial for changing out the flasher unit, but if you notice this quote from the top of page 3:

Please note that I am leaving the Blue/Black wire disconnected. This will disable the auto-cancelling feature of the turn signals.

you will notice that this does not go along with the original question that I posted last year.

OK, I have seen many posts about LED turn signals, and I know that I will need an electronic flasher unit to get them to flash at a somewhat correct rate, but would like to know if anybody has actually done this, and can tell me whether there is any problem keeping the self-cancelling feature.

On second thought, it really does not matter if you have changed to LED signals.
The main question revolves around the use of the electronic flasher and retaining the self-cancelling feature. .

Sounds like I am going to have to move this up my priority list due to increased recent interest.

.

[Spyder]

Wow, all that position talk.....er....well....never mind.

Mine is just three solid positions--- L-C-R on my 750, and i have to push it back to center manually to cancel the signal. However on my 82 650L the three position switch is momentary left or right, meaning it returns to center after activating the signal. I PUSH the lever in and it cancals the signal. Never tried to leave it on to see if it turns itself off. I'll have to try it.

[Matchless]

Wow, all that position talk.....er....well....never mind.

Mine is just three solid positions--- L-C-R on my 750, and i have to push it back to center manually to cancel the signal. However on my 82 650L the three position switch is momentary left or right, meaning it returns to center after activating the signal. I PUSH the lever in and it cancals the signal. Never tried to leave it on to see if it turns itself off. I'll have to try it.

A quick test is to just push the switch to left or right with the ignition off. Turn ignition on and lights should NOT flash. If you then push it in towards the momentary position it should reset the self cancelling unit and flashing should start.

[Wallowgreen]

So I have very little experience with the 80 on version of the self canelling control unit but here's what I can tell you...

The turn signals operated when they wanted on my 79 850 GN and because of the price of a new controller, I built my own using a uP. The 79 version is different to the 80's on controller, but from what I've found, only in the way the 12v out of the controller is directed to the required turn signal pair. The 79 version had two relays to provide this function - one per signal pair, the 80 and later version only has one relay and uses the turn signal switch latch feature to enable the correct signal pair.

From building my own '79 version controller which has been working flawlessly for almost 18 months on my machine. I can tell you categorically the loading of the signals is nothing to do with the self cancel feature on the '79 version. If I were a betting man, my money would be on the 80 version being the same.

I concur with a lot of what's been posted here on system functionality. I can add a little to the speed sensor functionality:

The sensor in the speedo opens and closes relative to the speed being measured by the speedometer. I measured this to be a frequency of around 24Hz at 10mph. My uP based system can sense this signal and correctly calculate the current speed but I've not used that in my unit to self cancel as yet. I intend to get to that this summer and add that in.

Perhaps a further improvement would be to pulse the 12v output with the uP to directly provide the 'flash' instead of being reliant on those flasher units and their loading properties. We could throw them away for good then. Relay's don't care about loading!

Just my 0.02