Odd starter problem...someone's going to know!

[chuckycheese]

My GS1100 has a great electrical system but, every now and then, the starter doesn't turn over the engine. It 'clicks' the solenoid..so I know the solenoid is good. If I put it in gear and roll it...and then return it to neutral, it will start right up. What's going on? All I can think of is the starter clutch...but I've never had this problem in the past. When it does start, it's a perfect start; not like anything is amiss. I'd appreciate your thoughts.

[nathan12]

Im definitely not an expert on starters, but as the proud owner of many older bikes and other misc. vehicles during my 26 years, that sounds like you have some worn brushes inside the starter and when you roll it a little in gear it brings turns the brushes enough to create better conditions for the starter to turn.... feel free to call me an idiot if that sounds way off haha.
nathan

[Big T]

It's not the starter clutch. It's electrical. I'd pull the starter and clean it. Also clean the solenoid.

[TheCafeKid]

Id have to agree with the starter being the culprit rather than the starter clutch. I have a starter clutch going, and the starter spins weather the clutch wants to or not.

[chuckycheese]

Thanks

Thanks, guys! I'm going to assume, at this point, that it's the starter. Nathan, your idea seems very likely and similar to other posts I've seen here, through the years. The bike has quite a few miles on it and I have no idea about the starter's history. I'll get into it and report back.

[JayH]

Just a thought but you might also want to check oil level. If you overfill the crankcase w/ oil, get gas siphoning through the petcock, etc. it is harder for the starter to turn the engine over.

You didn't mention a gas smell but while you are down there pulling the starter check the oil level as well as the color of the oil.

[jimcor]

Thanks, guys! I'm going to assume, at this point, that it's the starter. Nathan, your idea seems very likely and similar to other posts I've seen here, through the years. The bike has quite a few miles on it and I have no idea about the starter's history. I'll get into it and report back.

No question. That's exactly what worn brushes do. Clean the commutator of the rotor while it's apart, too. Mark the cap and starter body so you don't reassemble the starter 180* off. It will rotate backwards if you do. Starter parts at www.stockers.com

[chuckycheese]

Thanks

Jay, the oil is mid-level and fresh (changed last week). Jimcor, thanks for the info and the website...I couldn't remember the name of Stockers so you saved me a big search.:-D

[chuckycheese]

Yes!!!

I wanted to follow up on this thread because I did a search and found several others who experienced exactly the same symptoms I did.

I took off the starter and inspected the brushes...which looked very good. Everything else looked just right, too, except that the commutator was black and gunky. I took some emery paper and buffed it until it was a beautiful, brassy color. I put it all back together, stuck it in the bike and it works like new.

I hope maybe this will help someone else in the future. By the way, getting the starter out of a stock 1980 GS1100E is an absolute piece of cake!!\\/

[SPARKSS]

Just a note to help you and others next time you have to diagnose the problem. When the unit fails to crank, do this: Use a test light (good big bulb not an LED job) and look at the output side of the solenoid to see if it lights when the starter button is pushed - IF SO, remove the starter wire (heavy wire TO the starter) at the solenoid, put your test light ground lead ON the empty solenoid terminal (or just battery positive) and touch that disconnected starter cable.....light on brightly will usually indicate the starter motor circuit is there in some form (other problems can be associated and may require current testing) BUT NO LIGHT ON will point to a probable open motor circuit - which because starters are often series motors, is usually due to a worn out OR stuck brush OR a weak spring CAUSING a stuck brush.

Sure saves ripping a starter apart for nothing or throwing solenoid switches or other parts at the problem eh.

[chuckycheese]

solenoid

I think solenoids get a very unfair 'rap'. I've seen them blamed for starter problems from my 1964 Falcon Sprint onward...but I've never seen one fail ('m sure they do but they're isn't much to go wrong with them).

I just stuck a screwdriver across it and it sparked like crazy....but the starter didn't turn over; so, off the starter came.

[SPARKSS]

Sparked heavy across the main terminals is sure a sign of some-sort-of circuit at the other end (or in between!)

Many times, with particular starter types especially (you did mention your Falcon), just the R&R of the starter improved the ground connection significantly.....of course cleaning all mounting surfaces and, if the starter was torn down, cleaning between all sections including through bolts which have to pass current is equally as important to whatever other obvious probs are found.

Good job

[jimcor]

Your brushes are still worn down. That fix might last for awhile, but you're going to have to do the brushes. I did the same thing. Wasn't long till I had to replace the brushes. That gunky stuff you cleaned off is mostly brush material.

[chuckycheese]

Huh?

Your brushes are still worn down. That fix might last for awhile, but you're going to have to do the brushes. I did the same thing. Wasn't long till I had to replace the brushes. That gunky stuff you cleaned off is mostly brush material.

Well, then, why didn't they look like it? Maybe yours were worn down but that hardly means mine are.8-[ What were your measurements? Mine were right around 10.2 mm (with a service limit of 6 mm). I think I can deposit a lot more gunk before I'll have to replace them but I promise to report back if it happens anytime within the next couple of years!!