Best way to clean internal engine varnish ?

[TheCafeKid]

No don't just plug them, check Ebay and get the original oil pressure sending unit/adapter or route the hose from one fitting to the other. The oil adapters are a sought after item. I use Shell Rotella T 15/40 oil in my 850 dino/ diesel oil
DO NOT PUT ADDITIVES in the oil unless you want to replace the clutch

Agreed. Any of that car/truck oil treatment, like Rislone, Restore, etc etc, is death to your wet clutch system. Keep in mind, that our lovely GSs, as with MOST motorcycle motors, contain not only the powerplant, but the transmission, as well. And as such, the transmission is lubricated by OIL instead of transmission fluid. So anything that you may put in your oil with the intention of cleaning the combustion part of your motor, had also better be safe for your transmission as well. I would suggest stearing well clear of any of those "magical" additives. I have heard people suggest running a bit of seafoam in the case for cleaning, but only for a VERY short time, and then a complete oil/filter change is performed. Personally, i have never done it, so i cant say whether its worth it or not. Honestly, I run Rotella in my motors, 15-40. My GSs seem to like it pretty well, and I change every 2000 miles, give or take a few hundred. It seems to do well in cleaning too. Its heavier than what is perscribed by the manufacturer, but, especially in the heat wave we in the midwest are experiencing now, it gives me added piece of mind. I wouldnt hesitate to run 20w50 in my motor in the dead of summer either. The only thing to keep in mind, is that if you live in a part of the country where the temp drops pretty dramaticly at night, say the high desert or something, be sure to allow a little extra bit of warm up time when running a heavier oil. It will take a little longer to get warm enough to be pushed around the motor, and during that warm up time, you may not be getting the optimum level of lubrication on metal on metal parts.

[hikermikem]

Thanks everyone for the great advice... think I'll keep the cooler on for the short term anyway, can't hurt. Still don't understand why a "system with a cooler" doesn't require more oil than a "system withpout a cooler?"

Sorry to ask so many questions - I'm kinda a data freak, the more the better. I mean, "how can you make an intelligent & informed desicion about anything with asking a crapload of questions & aquiring a bunch-o-data?"

You guys on this forum have tons of experience & I respect all your opinions & thoughts. It's a great thing to be able to "tap" that "GS resouce".

I'll be finishing the carb clean & rebuild this weekend - still waitting for the valve cover gasket & cam chain tensioner o-rings/seal, but I plan on adjusting the valves in the meantime. I don't believe its been done yet (7328 mi on bike), so I expect them all to be tight - then I'll be waiting for shims to show up!

I also have to address the crud/light rust in the fuel tank. I previously bought some POR-15 (entire kit) to coat a different tank, but I just replaced that one with an e-bay special. Perhaps I'll use that stuff on this one. Is there a reason to coat the tank if I remove the rust mechcanically (e.g., shaking it with small rocks), & chemically (acid etch).

Once it's clean, what's the best way to keep the tank insides from rusting again before I fill it with gas?? Here in New England even plastic rusts in the high humidity of summer (ok, maybe that's a bit of a stretch...)

as always, thanks for the help,

mike

[Nessism]

An engine with a cooler does require more oil, how much more is a bit of a guess though - the oil drains back out of the cooler when the engine is shut off so you can't judge by sightglass alone.

On my 850, with a cooler, the oil level is set so it's at the top of the sight glass shortly after shutting down - maybe 20 seconds after. The oil level continues to raise until it's above the sightglass window. Not sure how much extra oil there is but a guess is about 4 oz.

Hope this helps.

[hikermikem]

An engine with a cooler does require more oil, how much more is a bit of a guess though - the oil drains back out of the cooler when the engine is shut off so you can't judge by sightglass alone.

On my 850, with a cooler, the oil level is set so it's at the top of the sight glass shortly after shutting down - maybe 20 seconds after. The oil level continues to raise until it's above the sightglass window. Not sure how much extra oil there is but a guess is about 4 oz.

Hope this helps.

Yes, thanks - perhaps i'll fill the oil cooler & lines remotely, thendrain it back out into a graduated container to measure the volume, then just add that much more when the sight glass shows full. That sounds as geeky as I can get!!

[Nessism]

Yes, thanks - perhaps i'll fill the oil cooler & lines remotely, thendrain it back out into a graduated container to measure the volume, then just add that much more when the sight glass shows full. That sounds as geeky as I can get!!

Great idea, please let me know how much more oil. Only fly in the ointment is how to judge the oil level as you accumulate mileage on that oil change? Maybe pinch off the oil lines at the back of the engine right after shutting down to keep the oil from draining back? Just don't forget to remove the clamps after you top off the oil.

[hikermikem]

Great idea, please let me know how much more oil. Only fly in the ointment is how to judge the oil level as you accumulate mileage on that oil change? Maybe pinch off the oil lines at the back of the engine right after shutting down to keep the oil from draining back? Just don't forget to remove the clamps after you top off the oil.

No problem, I'll let you know after I do it

[tkent02]

Thanks everyone for the great advice... think I'll keep the cooler on for the short term anyway, can't hurt.

Can hurt, cold oil does not flow the same as hot oil, parts of the engine may suffer. At least get a cooler with a thermostat.

[hikermikem]

Can hurt, cold oil does not flow the same as hot oil, parts of the engine may suffer. At least get a cooler with a thermostat.

Hmmmm..... didn't condider that, good point. Great, more data to kick about!

[Nessism]

Can hurt, cold oil does not flow the same as hot oil, parts of the engine may suffer. At least get a cooler with a thermostat.

Most of the second generation GS engines came with oil coolers from Suzuki. None have a thermostat. In fact, just about all air cooled Japanese bikes starting some time in the mid 80's came with oil coolers...and none I'm aware of have a thermostat.

[hikermikem]

Can hurt, cold oil does not flow the same as hot oil, parts of the engine may suffer. At least get a cooler with a thermostat.

I suppose if you are operating a bike in a climate where your start up ambient temp is rather chilly, then a cooler with a thermostat is a good idea. Not sure where the temp cut off would be, but I'm not located in Northern Canada!!

[Dan Ruddock]

If your oil temp never goes above 250 there is no need for a cooler. All it will do is slow down how long it takes to warm up the bike which is bad. Unlike the VW bug (air cooled) which had a thermostat flaps that blocked air flow until the engine warmed up, bike engines are being cooled all the time and are slow at warming up (one advantage of water cooling). Yes the 2nd gen bikes had coolers but they were small and were probably put on the bike for marketing reasons. I might be wrong but I would guess the early GSX-R which had very big coolers had thermostats. The second gen bikes might not of had thermostat because of bean counters, to leave the thermostat out is not ideal. Also I would not be so sure they did not have some kind of simple oil pressure valve that when the pressure was high (cold engine) diverted the oil away from the cooler. Again VW did this trick on the bugs. There is a engine cleaning product called cycle-rx is very good at de solving internal sludge and varnish. Dan

[doctorgonzo]

I've thought about a cooler. I do a bit of traffic riding on the work commute. I've been unsure of what to look for though. Is there a general rule on what more modern bikes or aftermarket coolers are out there that are a pretty clean fit on GS engines?

I stopped by the local indy shop today to show the guy my bike. He had mounted some tires for it, but had never seen the bike. He talked about that GS bottom end "You can't tear them up. I've seen engines run out of oil, and the top end is trashed, but you can't hurt that roller crank". I said something about my little weep around and the head, and he said "you might as well just live with it. When these engines get hot the head literally moves around. When you can't stand it anymore, or it gets bad, fix it, but on these air cooled engines. It just comes with the territory".

Both pretty interesting comments I thought.