Another Regulator Wiring Question

[slob]

So I have a regulator from who knows what and am going to wire it on. Now last time I did this I was told the three wires from the stator go to the reg. (three yellow in this case) matters little which way. the red goes to positive the green goes to ground. fine now I have about 13V coming out of the Red & green. QUESTION- what does the brown wire do??? last time I wired this to an active wire(as told to by bike wrecker), so this time I tried to active and tried to nothing. It doesn't seem to make any difference. The Suzi manual only tells me about 3 wires from Stator and the 2 going out to charge. WHAT DOES THE BROWN WIRE DO AND IS IT IMPORTANT ???

[SPARKSS]

So I have a regulator from who knows what and am going to wire it on.

Therein lies the problem. Without a schematic of that "regulator" (which is more likely a rectifier bridge.....perhaps with other features), that last wire is a guess (assuming the red 'n green ones were correct). Another point to consider is the rating of any rectifier and/or regulator units being substituted into a circuit......

An educated guess would be to not use that brown wire. Monitor system voltage under a variety of loads (lights on and off - if switchable), and rpm. If the system voltage is fairly stable (doesn't fall below 12 nor rise above 15) AND this substituted unit doesn't overheat (warm is ok but not hot to the touch) then go ahead and use it.

[slob]

An educated guess would be to not use that brown wire. .

thanks, thats what I'll try.

[Steve]

Another educated guess says that this is a Honda unit and the brown wire is a sense wire.
Connect it, as you have previously, to a wire that is only hot when the key is on. Is it important? In my opinion, yes.

That's my , but you did ask for it. 8-[

.

[focus frenzy]

if I remember right a brown wire may point to it being a Kawasaki unit and the brown wire is the power wire for the headlight.

check for voltage on the brown wire with the engine not running but key on, and with the engine running.

some kawasaki's and some others used a circuit in the R&R to switch on the headlight once the engine was running and the charging system was working. a good idea.

[Killer2600]

Gonna go against my sig and just say if it works then leave it.

[slob]

Another educated guess says that this is a Honda unit and the brown wire is a sense wire.
Connect it, as you have previously, to a wire that is only hot when the key is on. Is it important? In my opinion, yes.
.

So what's a sense wire do if connected? and why do you think it is important Steve? I have taken her out for a run of about 20 miles 10 with headlight on and reg was not hot. 10 with headlight off and reg was not hot. seem to be charging okay at about 12.7v.

Oh and I think it could be off a Honda, as that's what was written on it. but as it had soldered conections already who knows.

[Steve]

So what's a sense wire do if connected?

The charging control system is rather primitive, in that it always generates as much as it can, then dumps the excess. Instead of just going to a preset voltage, the sense wire senses what is actually being put out, and compares it to the set point, then adjusts the output a bit. Makes it a bit more flexible than the stock system.

and why do you think it is important Steve?

It is rather important, because if it does not sense anything (because it's disconnected), it will boost the output, trying to get the voltage up. I had a poor connection on my wife's bike when I put in the 'new' r/r, and the voltage was running over 16 volts. After connecting the sense wire to a reliable source, voltage came back down to a normal 14.3 volts.

seem to be charging okay at about 12.7v.

Sorry, but if you think that charging at 12.7 volts is OK, we have other problems going on here.
12.7 volts is a good starting point for a fully-charged battery. When the bike (or any vehicle, for that matter) is running, voltage should be over 13.6. In fact, the Suzuki manual states in the charging system troubleshooting chart that the voltage measured at the battery with the engine running at 5000 rpm should be between 14.0 and 15.5 volts.

Rather than running the bike for a few miles and feeling the regulator for temperature, put a voltmeter on there to see what it's really doing. If you don't already have a voltmeter, this is your perfect excuse to get one. 8-[

.

[slob]

I had the whole thing apart and just had the cdi hanging off the side with the soleniod bolted on to the engine. I wired the cdi up to a battery and got it running I had the volage regulator wired to the stator and got 12.7ish out of it when it was going to nothing this was at idle. I spent the last 3 days wiring it up from scratch as the loom was u/s and I was happy. Now I'm chasing my tail again it would seem. This will have to wait unil next weekend. thanks for now I'll keep you posted.

Rob.

[duaneage]

Here is a wiring diagram I have for the Honda RRs I sell. modified for Suzuki bikes. Sorry for the shameless plug

[slob]

.
Sorry, but if you think that charging at 12.7 volts is OK, we have other problems going on here.
put a voltmeter on there to see what it's really doing. . 8-[
.

Couldn't stop thinking about this all day and although I'd rather watch tv I had to go out and get dirty finger nails.
Okay I disconnected the battery and had 11.something DC. out of the reg. disconnected the reg and had 40ish AC out of the generator. @ loud RPMs. checked continuity on stator and all fields read .8 ohms or something (my volage tester is auto and rounds off so its got me scratching my head) NOW CHECKED BETWEEN STATOR WIRES AND GROUND AND GOT A READING.(big number) so I'm geussing this is wrong and the thing needs rewinding eh?

[duaneage]

Regulator went bad and cooked the stator. Both need replacing unfortunately. The RR is easy to replace, the stator requires a gasket and dirty fingernails.

The stator can be rewound, a page on this site shows the process IIRC but the RR is best replaced with a Honda RR for best life. At least there is an upgrade path there.

I wouldn't try rewinding a stator myself because they are available after market and not terribly expensive. It's a lot of work to rewind one and once complete you must install it completely to see for sure if it works.

After you get the stator sorted out if you want a Honda RR replacement kit I can get you one for 45.00US delivered to Oz. You would be in good company with 2 other blokes that did the change out as well down there.

[Steve]

Okay I disconnected the battery and had 11.something DC. out of the reg. disconnected the reg and had 40ish AC out of the generator. @ loud RPMs. checked continuity on stator and all fields read .8 ohms or something (my volage tester is auto and rounds off so its got me scratching my head) NOW CHECKED BETWEEN STATOR WIRES AND GROUND AND GOT A READING.(big number) so I'm geussing this is wrong and the thing needs rewinding eh?

Lots of things going on here, makes me wonder if anyone has pointed out the value of reading The Stator Papers. (<---Click the link.) There is a lot of useful information in there, along with a very good systematic troubleshooting chart that will help you measure all the different parts and diagnose your system.

Some of the things that you posted that made me shudder:
"disconnected the battery and had 11.something DC." Was the bike running? Never disconnect the battery when the bike is running, it is almost guaranteed that you will fry some expensive electrical components. The battery is used as a reference point. If some of these items don't 'see' battery power, they try to compensate, usually unsucessfully.

"had 40ish AC" Your meter may round off, but not THAT much.

"@ loud RPMs" "Loud" is very relative. With an open header, ANY rpm is "loud". With my GoldWIng, I have not heard a "loud" rpm yet. Does your tachometer work? Measurements are supposed to be taken at 5000 rpm, according to most manuals. You DO have a manual, don't you? Sure, there are many of us that are willing to answer questions, but we are also more willing to do so if you also have a manual and use it.

"NOW CHECKED BETWEEN STATOR WIRES AND GROUND AND GOT A READING" This is quite possible, depending on your meter. Some meters reach their limit on resistance measurements and show "OL", while others might actually show the "2.3 megOhms" or whatever. And, how big is your "big number"? Because of your meter, it might be "big enough" to not matter, but simply saying it's a big number doesn't tell us squat.


.

[slob]

"disconnected the battery and had 11.something DC."
yes it was running, If I disconnected the battery and had 11.sometyhing dc coming out of the reg I'd be suprised.

"@ loud RPMs" "Loud" is very relative. Does your tachometer work?
Tachometer? sorry no I dont have one. 4into1 system and I reckon I know what 5k rpms sounds like by now and I was joking. Man your straight.

"NOW CHECKED BETWEEN STATOR WIRES AND GROUND AND GOT A READING"

I figure if the thing is shorting out then I get a reading and a big reading is a big short. The stator papers say something like any reading above zero is a problem.

ANYWAY.....to cut a long story short I rewound the stator, and contrary to the stator papers or maybe some conversion issue the 17 gauge was too thick. I used 1.1mm wound onto the posts clockwise and around the stator counter clockwise. I used a length of the old wire from one post to measure the new. I was nowhere near as neat as the machine wound but in the end it seems to have worked. (we'll see for how long eh) I have 13.7 at the battery now with the sence wire connected.

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. slob,

Wow! You rewound your own stator. Now that's a man's man! That's really being "at one with" your motorcycle. I'm impressed. Nice work.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff