Bike not chargin

[lehmaj]

Hello,

I just bought a 1978 GS 750 on Friday and the guy before I bought it mentioned that he recently replaced the battery on it because it was old. I put on around 150 miles over the weekend and last night (Sunday) I started having issues using the electric start because the battery was weak. I used the kick start instead. This morning when I tried starting the bike with the kick start and it wouldn't turn over very well or wouldn't even kick over. I took the battery out to charge it and tried kick starting the bike and it would turn over just fine, but no head lead or power related item. I was just wondering if anyone had an idea what might be causing this. Just wondering if it might be something related with the stators or the charging system.

Thanks
Joe

[marvinsc]

Yes, that is likely your problem. It would be good to go through all the wiring and clean and grease (dilectrec grease from Radio Shack) all the connectors. Then charge the battery and check out the charging system per "The Stator Papers" found in The Garage section of the GSR Home page. My guess is that You have a bad stator (most of us GS owners have had one) and possibly RR. Once You get it fixed You will be good to go for Lots of miles. Oh Yeah, Welcome to the GSR!

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. lehmaj,

Please read and study the following carefully. It will help you put your bike in order. Plus, there will be a pop quiz Friday on the material in your mega-welcome!

Dear fellow GS rider,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)!

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:

http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:

http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:

http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

***********************************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php

http://www.electrosport.com/

For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):
http://www.realgaskets.com
The Rice Paddy (salvage/used)
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com
Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid
http://www.motogrid.com
If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Used bike buying checklists:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki
http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:

http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

[lehmaj]

Thanks

Thanks for the response. Do you know of a good place order a new RR and Stator.

Thanks
Joe

[spyug]

Welcome aboard Joe but you seem to be jumping the gun. You may not need to replace those parts and you should approach this in an orderly fashion.That's why the stator pages were concieved and written.

Electrical problems are common to old Japanese bikes. I had them on all three of my Yamahas and my GS as well. In order to defeat these faults you will need some basic diagnostic equipment, a digital multimeter and a 12 volt circuit tester(lamp or buzzer).

First things first. Read the stator papers and do some searches on the existing threads to get the feel for what tests are done and what they tell you. There are literally hundreds of threads packed with info.

Before delving in to the stator/ rotor/ regulator/ rectifier tests do a few simple things. Corrosion at connectors is a real problem and the cause of innumerable problems. As suggested, clean and lube every connector you can find starting with the battery terminals. Anywhere you have a connector open it and dig out any grunge. Small dental picks and wire brushes are good for this.

Bad grounds are also noted for causing problems so clean their terminals and make sure you have a nice clean metal to metal connection.

Bad grounding of the Reg/Rec is also a well noted problem and the first thing the gurus tell you to do is run a seperate wire from the ground lead of the R/R (black/white wire)directly to the negative pole of the battery. This fixed my charging problem.

Trickle charge your battery and with this negative lead mod in place check your charging. Across the battery at 2000 rpm or better you should be seeing 14.5 volts anything less than 14 is not good nor is anything over 15V and you might then have a problem that needs further investigation.

So do your homework, round up your tools and see what's really going on.

Keep us posted.

Good luck sorting it out. You can do it just take your time and be methodical.

Cheers,
Spyug

[Suzuki mad]

It cost to much money to just keep changing parts till it gets sorted on these old bikes.

Read the stator papers and do some investigation on your bike to find the fault. Then buy whats needed. You never know, you just might like your bike even more.

Suzuki mad

[SqDancerLynn1]

You need to check things before buying parts. Be aware your bike has a separate reg & rect. It is common practice to replace them with the combo unit

[BassCliff]

Thanks for the response. Do you know of a good place order a new RR and Stator.

Thanks
Joe

If you read your mega-welcome you will find many of our favorite sources for engine and electrical parts listed there.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[lehmaj]

Thanks

Thanks for all the responses. I was just wondering about where to get the parts so I could take a look at if I needed to replace them how much I was looking at spending. I have the repair manual for the bike and was going to test some things once I got home from work. I have been reading over the stator pages since I last posted as well.

I am really impressed with the support that this forum has. Most forums I have been to for other things in the past haven't been this helpful.

Thanks
Joe

[lehmaj]

Check some things

Hello,

I just have a question about the testing. I have read from a few area and the repair manuals to turn off the light on the bike while testing. While testing and following the flow chart that was in the strator guide had for testing to see if the battery was getting enough charge was listed between 13.4 to 14 volts on idle. When I turned the lights on it dropped down to 12.5 volts on idle. I was wondering if that was normal or not.

Thanks

[BassCliff]

Cooking with electrons

Hello,

I just have a question about the testing. I have read from a few area and the repair manuals to turn off the light on the bike while testing. While testing and following the flow chart that was in the strator guide had for testing to see if the battery was getting enough charge was listed between 13.4 to 14 volts on idle. When I turned the lights on it dropped down to 12.5 volts on idle. I was wondering if that was normal or not.

Thanks

What do you get at 4000rpm? Are you using The Stator Papers?

http://www.thegsresources.com/garage/gs_statorfacts.htm

The last time I checked, with my bright headlight on, I get over 13v at the battery at idle.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[lehmaj]

Melted R & R

When I had it around 4000 to 5000 rpms it sits around 12.6 volts. Well now there is a new problem which is the R & R melted today. I took the bike for a spin this evening and all of a sudden the bike completely shut down and blew a 15 amp fuse from the battery to the R & R. There was also black melted plast coming out from behind the R & R. I am planning on having my rootmates friend take a look at it he does some side jobs working on bikes and small engines. So I am fairly certain the R & R is fried. Do you guys have any other suggestion on things to check for now since this shorted out.

[Steve]

Do you guys have any other suggestion on things to check for now since this shorted out.

Have you read The Stator Papers yet?

The link is in BassCliff's Mega-Welcome.

The answers to ALL your questions are in there.

.

[lehmaj]

Response

Yea I read them. The tests were coming back above 13.5 and below 14.3 volts with engine around 4000 to 5000 rpm when the lights weren't on. They were lower with them off around 12.7 volts at idle with lights off. The flow chart that is in the stator white papers said the those were within norm of the charging system working.

[spyug]

Yea I read them. The tests were coming back above 13.5 and below 14.3 volts with engine around 4000 to 5000 rpm when the lights weren't on. They were lower with them off around 12.7 volts at idle with lights off. The flow chart that is in the stator white papers said the those were within norm of the charging system working

I think you mean lower with lights on.

The 12.7v is on the low side of acceptable and based on this I would recommend running the direct ground line from your R/R (black/white) to the battery negative pole. This is the same reading I was getting on my GS prior to making that mod. With the direct ground line my charging shot up to 14+ at idle. I haven't had any issues since.

Having said that, if you blew a fuse and there are melted parts your R/r is seriously overheating and likely not functioning correctly. There also could be some shorting in a line so check for cracked or burnt lines to and from the rectifier, fuse block, solenoid and battery.

You were asking about sources for parts and our man Duaneage is the go to guy for replacement reg/recs.

Thinking about the overheating R/R I think you really need to test the stator out put as it may be the root source of the problem if the voltage output is way over spec.

Do some more tests and let us know how they look.

Good luck,
Spyug.