Spark plug wires and ends.

[Anonymous]

I know it has been discussed before, but I was unable to locate it in a search.

What is a good source for replacement ignition wires and the wire end that fits on the plug? I have finally got the carburetors built and it's time to move to the next item.

Thank you.
Chumpy

[silverhorse47]

Hello chumpy,
Any jobber will have spark plug wire on a roll...just get the number of feet you need. I bought straight NKG spark plug connectors/boots from the local Yamaha dealer...but I bet Napa or any other jobber would have boots. In the parts books there are quite a few different boots available. Mine, on a 1983 gs750e originally had a dog leg in the top end, but I found when the wire was cut to the exact right length it was not necessary in any way. I am sure there may be some who will argue...but...it's up to you. My impression was that OEM connectors are longer than the standard NKG ones. Again...this has not been a problem at all on my bike. Take it to a jobber with a brain and let them show you the options.

Pick the wire out of the coil if it doesn't just screw out...mone were kind of epoxied in with some kind of bakelite type stuff...clean it all out and shine it up in there, then screw the new wire in gently until it bottoms out...then fill the gap with silicone or some kind of gasket goo. Screw the new spark plug connector and boot onto the other end and that is really all there is to it.

S.

[SqDancerLynn1]

For the boots NGK VBH05F black angled boot XB05F straight boot
DOn't replace the wires unless they need replacement YOU will have to go to Motorcycle shop to get the spark plug wire YOU MUST use solid core wire. I couldn't find solid wire at auto parts stores. If you want to try and replace the wires trim the coil housing back about 1/2 in Only. (the wire is soldered to a terminal inside the coil) do not try to remove the wire from the terminal cut the old wire off leaving about 1/8 in of the old wire. trim 1/8 in of insulation from the new wire. Tin both ends with a dab of solder, then hold the two overlaping and heat the solder again to join the two pieces. Then you need to build up the removed area with epoxie puddy or silicon so that it is at least 1/2 in thich for insulation. If you want to have Accell wires or something like that you will have to replace the coils, then you can use any automotive type plug wires

[first timer]

my personal experience, let me start by saying i just got my accel COIL KIT in the mail today. i did what SQDancer said and yes it could work but in my opion repair the wires if there is only a major problem, other wise leave it alone or you will be orderinga new coil kit yourself. after digging the wires out and cutting and sodering it is better to just pay the money for a new coil and wire. the repair can be a very messy difficult and a time consumeing job just to be back at square one with a ity bity spark. if you want a bigger spark new wire on a old oem coil will not give you that it may reduce your spark depending on the quality of your work. just get a coil kit.

ryan

[Anonymous]

Thanks.

Thanks folks. It's nice to have this forum to ask before reinventing the wheel again, and again, and again...

Chumpy

[silverhorse47]

Squaredancer...why do you have to have solid wires? Couldn't you just cut it off, dig out the corruption and expose the solid remaining core, press the new wire onto the nub and glue it in? My wires weren't soldered into the coils and were not solid wire, but after I cleaned out the terminal holes there were two small brass screws that the original wire had been turned onto. I would have thought it would work to just press the center of the new wire onto the remaining solid core and glue it in. Is there a reason you need solid wire?
Seems a pity to have to fork over for brand new coils if all that's gone are the wires.

[terry]

I agree with Mr Horse, there is probably nothing wrong with your oem coils, but after 20 or so years your leads and plug caps are probably shot. The oem suzy coils are pretty reliable, and while they were pretty average even when new, will still work a heck of a lot better with new coils and caps.

The plug wires on all the GS bikes from at least 1977 to 1982 were never soldered into the coils, there is a brass pin a couple of inches inside where the lead is glued into the coil body that simply spears into the plug wire.

I just ground out the old glue with my dremel tool knockoff thing and popped the old wires off, then refitted either copper core spark plug wire, or the silicon stuff, either worked fine. Once again, I've used NGK caps on both wire and silicon leads with no problems at all.

Having said all that, the oem coils are only good for stock engines. Once you improve the performance by the use of big bore kits, hot cam grinds etc, throw the oem coils away, they just aren't up to igniting a big gas charge.

On top of that, a Dyna "S", Dyna 3 or Dyna 2000 with Dyna 3 Ohm coils will really make your bike start much easier and run better, accellerate faster and will give you better fuel economy. I have an old Martek system that I bought on ebay for about 50 bucks in my 1979 GS750 and it works fine as well.

[SqDancerLynn1]

Just giving info from what I found. I repaired mine more for a temp repair, but they have been working fine for the last 3k miles only cost $5. I also have a new set of dyna coils in my tool box but I haven't needed them yet

[silverhorse47]

Well Terry and Lynn...I did a small amount of reading to try and sort this out...and here is what I understand from what I read.

The solid core wire was abandonned mainly because of interference...I think it creates that misfiring thing when it lies too close to it's neighbours.

I can see that if the coils had, as Lynn's did, an interior soldered connection, ie one inside the actual case of the coil...that one would have to preserve some part of the original solid wire protrusion in order to effect a repair...either by soldering on to the original terminal, soldering onto the original clipped off wire bit , or by pressing a graphite core wire onto the wire remnant and epoxy/siliconing it tight.

The part that I found interesting in the reading was that a maximum of 20000 volts (well maybe a little higher for increased compression ratio) was desirable at the plug gap. Above this point the spark does not cleanly jump the gap. There is so much voltage that it takes other routes as well, like through crud buildup and etc., the spark is not clean, and the fuel charge is not cleanly ignited. So far this is fairly standard mechanics.

What I didn't know about increasing the voltage at the plug with aftermarket coils, was that the reason they help is not that they increase the voltage at the spark gap. It is because the 40000 odd volts they are capable of generating overcomes resistance that builds up in the system as a result of wear...like crumbly old boots and wires. There is I am sure an element of the way the original coils are wound and the windings on the primary and secondary parts of the original coils etc., but barring any actual opens shorts or grounds internal to the coils I think these do not affect daily running of 'get it and keep it going type motorcycles'.

So even though the gap, when all is well, only needs 20000 volts to fire the fuel charge with aplomb, when all is NOT well...ie there is crime and corruption in the circuit...the extra voltage delivered by high tech devices overcomes it, and one really doesn't notice the difference because said crime and corruption rarely approaches the 20000 volt resistance difference in delivery.

S.

[first timer]

i just want to back SqDancer and say that some of the bike, mine in peticular had soild core wires soldered to the coil. there was no brass pin to push anything into, the wires were very firmly soldered into the coil.
i will be replcaeing my coils today with accels maybe i'll cut apart one of my olds and see how it ticks.

[silverhorse47]

First timer...what I am asking is: if you clip off the wire, leave a little stub end of solid wire, pick out the insulation and etc from inside the terminal...could you then push a new graphite core wire over that soldered on wire stub?
I don't doubt that sqdancer's coil wires were soldered in...just saying that mine weren't.
I'd love to hear how your old coils were made, btw.

S.

[first timer]

i still haven't cut then apart but i did replace them yesterday, what i expericed with my coils was after cliping the wires flush with the plastic collar, and digging out the insul, i needed to cut the plastic collar off in order to keep digging out the insul and then after i when as far as i could digging ( it seemed like no end to the insul) i had to cut more into the coil houseing in order get at the insul. long story short the end of the insul and the wiers were buried like a 1" and 1/2" into the coil from the end of the collar makeing it very difficulty to get at and after i did the coil was all buggery makeing it near impossable to easy slide a silicone wire into it if even if i had solder the a little bit of copper wire coming out of the coil. i would be very suspisous of then kind of connection myself, what i did tempararly so i could use my bike a alittle was took the old plug wire striped a little bit of the end bare and stuck it back into then coil and loaded it up with soder and flux which work a little bit like i sad temperarly. so i guess to anwser your qusetion, with my coils i had to dig very deep to remove the insul and it made it very difficult to solder some of the copper wire to use as a pin, to jab a silicon wire onto, i would not trust that connection myself.

[Anonymous]

Has anyone used the flashing plug ends from JC Whitney? I was thinking of using them to add a little 'flash' to my suzi'.

[silverhorse47]

first timer___ yes it is a deep hole. I used drill bits and grinding tools in a dremel to clean out my holes. As far as the connection goes...the wire end essentially ends up glued solidly into that deep hole. It cannot move in out or sideways. I think the connection is fine. That's the way my coils were made to start with...graphite cores and wire ends glued into those deep dark terminals.
It was a time consuming chore getting that crap out of the holes though, no doubt about that. If you have another go at it consider borrowing a dremel tool...it will make things a lot easier...just don't grind away that little wire tip you need to engage the new wire.

S.

[Anonymous]

Well, I gave it a try and things went South really fast. :x Here's a little bit of background first. My 400 origionally had copper wires built into the coils. There are two coils for two cylinders. I gave the first copper wire a good twist and nothing happened so I gripped onto it with a pair of pliers and kept twisting... Eventually the copper wire broke off and all I could see in the hole was a copper dot where the wire disappears into the actual coil. :roll: Seeing as my bike is very important to me and I even took it with me on a 4 month road contract this summer I wasn't ready to give up. I took a drill bit half the size of the coil hole and drilled right out the other side of the coil along the copper wire. The wire was still embedded in the plastic (no insulation at this point) so I grabbed my 60 Watt soldering iron and melted away enough plastic so that I could solder to the wire. Then I put my new silicone copper wire into the old hole until it was sticking out of the other end next to the old copper wire and soldered the sucker on. :twisted: I've gotten both of these things taken care of now and I'm waiting on the epoxy to cure over the exposed areas of my coils.

Anybody else do this? haha, yeah right :P Will my 1100 turn out this way too?

Cheers, Steve