Steering Problem, Maybe

[marcolli]

Hi, everyone. I've been on this site for a long time as a lurker and I've learned a lot from you. Thank you. I was wondering if you might be able to help me out with this one...

I have an 81 650G that I picked up a few weeks ago. It was in pretty good shape when I got it. It just needed a round of routine maint. It runs well and I'm to the point where I trust it to not fall apart under me or leave me sitting. The problem is, when I take a turn at low speed, the front wheel wants to dive in deeper. I have to counter steer while turning so the front doesn't go to the lock. This is bellow counter steering speeds. This is the first bike I've ever ridden that has done this. Every other bike, the front wheel would just stay where it was pointed. Could it be the forks, bearings, tire choice (Dunlops), or the nature of the beast?

Thanks again.

 

[bonanzadave]

Could it be the forks, bearings, tire choice (Dunlops), or the nature of the beast?

Do the easy stuff first. Tire pressure / wear ? Wheel bearings ? Bent forks ? Steering head bearings ? Id get it up on the centerstand and block it up so the front wheel is off the ground and give it a good once over...........before you ride it anymore.

 

[Suzuki mad]

Stick it on the centre stand. Go round the front of the bike and get a good hold of the front forks and lift the bike a little way off the floor. (about 1/4 inch.) Try moving the forks forwards and backwards to see if you have any 'play' or movement in the bearings. Also do a side to side movement and see if there are any notches in the steering race.

Put the front end back on the floor. Move to the side of the wheel and gripping the top and bottom of the wheel move the wheel as though you were trying to pull the bottom to the and the top to the bottom. (Don't spin the wheel, you are trying to hit the fork stantions.) See if you can feel any play or movement, if you can that wheel bearings.

Look at the tyre and check for pattern wear one side or the tyre looking like a 'dog tooth.' Rounded one side and sharpe the other. Check tyre pressures also.

If you have a large 'spirit level' hold that across the stantions so that the level is horizontal and just above the height of the tyre. Spin the front wheel. This is a basic test for a buckles spindle.
Same thing, get a screw driver handle and rest it against the stantion and the wheel rim. Spin the wheel with the screw driver lightly touching against the wheel rim. Don't move it as you spin the wheel but watch to see if the gap opens or closes. This will tell if you have a buckled front wheel.

Suzuki mad

 

[SqDancerLynn1]

GS bikes are somewhat top heave, What do you consider low speed ? My 850 is hard to keep straight when going 5 MPH. Tires will effect it too, including the rear tire.What sizw tires does it have. 100/90/19 would be the best size for a 650 front

 

[marcolli]

Thanks for all of your suggestions. One thing that I forgot to mention is that the PO put shorter shocks on the back, lowering it about 1". If I would've had my head out of my a$$ I would've thought about that. That changes the goemetry, effecting the handling. After I give the front a good once over I think I'll raise the forks through the triple trees and see what happens then.

Low speed = less than 10mph

 

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi Mr marcolli,

I can tell a difference in handling when I replace an old rear tire with a new rear tire, even if it's the same make/model/size tire. Just the height of the new tread makes the steering shorter. Here is your new and improved mega-welcome!

Dear fellow GS rider,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)![FONT=Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***********************************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:
http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html
Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:
http://cycleorings.com/intake.html
You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:
http://cycleorings.com
Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:
http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/
http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php
http://www.electrosport.com/
For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):
http://www.realgaskets.com
Carolina Cycle
http://www.carolinacycle.com
Ron Ayers Motorsports
http://www.ronayers.com
MR Cycles
http://www.mrcycles.com
Moto Grid
http://www.motogrid.com
Salvage/Used
http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com
http://www.ozpowersports.com/
If all else fails, try this:
http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/
Used bike buying checklists:
http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp
http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html
Lots of good info/pictures here:
http://www.suzukicycles.org
http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki
http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm
Online Clymer manuals:
http://search.ebscohost.com/ Click on "Small Engine Repair" then "Motorcycles". User=library, password=library. Note: This link may not work if you are on a school campus.

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

 

[marcolli]

Wow....a mega-welcome. I've seen them but I never thought I'd get one. Thank you.

Just an update....
I did as suggested above. I put the bike on the center stand and checked the bearings, forks, wheel, tread. Everything checked out fine. Then I had the rear tire changed. BAM!! A new bike. I never thought a few thousanths of an inch of tread could make such a difference. Everyone, thank you for your help and suggestions. You all rock!!