Leaks like a Harley

[newvined]

OK! So its been a while since I've had to ask any questions. I got the valve adjustment done, and I thought I had the oil leaks taken care of. I have been riding this lovely 82 GS850L for a month or more since getting these things done. Its a GREAT riding bike.

So my buddies and I were on the Blue Ridge Parkway somewhere between Maggie Valley and Blowing Rock. We stopped for lunch and I noticed some oil leaking. We discovered that the breather cover was loosening up, and it looks like the cam shaft adjuster is leaking as well.

Now in regards to the breather, I followed Bass Cliff's manual to the letter when I did the valves. ( I also replaced all of those half moon rubber plugs.) His instructions say that the valve cover and breather only need 6 or 7 ft/lbs of tightening. My torque wrench's lowest setting is 10 ft/lbs, so thats what I did. (OK so I didn't follow it all to the letter.) In any case it was clear that some of the bolts were loosening up causing the oil to leak.

So here are my questions:
1). Is 6-7 ft/lbs of torque the most that should be used or can I go higher? If so is there a maximum amount of torque that I shouldn't exceed?

2). I will check the manual about the leaking cam chain adjuster, but does anyone have some wisdom to share in regard to this? Also will this alter the current tension on the cam chain? I think the cam chain is loose anyhow so I will want to tighten it up after I take care of the leak. Any suggestions here are appreciated.

3) Oh yeah, almost forgot this one. Can I just retorque the valve cover and breather bolts, or will I need to get a new gasket and completely redo it again? (I hope I don't have to do it again!)

You guys have been great in the past. I expect more awesome advice on this one.

Thanks
David Newvine
82 GS850L

[Griffin]

The cam chain tensioner is automatic, and there is a set procedure for removing it (and reinstalling it) outlined in the service manual. You probably just need a new gasket for it. $5.

As for torque settings, you definitely should not exceed the maximum stated torque value for any fastener. You risk stripping out the bolt hole, or breaking off the bolt in the hole. You should use a 1/4" drive torque wrench that measures in inch-lbs for the valve cover bolts. You can get one at Harbor Freight for about $20.

Gasket leaking is caused by one of two things generally. Either the fasteners are improperly tightened, or the mating surfaces are not flat. Generally speaking, if you are careful when removing the valve cover, you can usually reuse the gasket a time or two (I have one that's going on it's third install/removal and still doesn't leak). If you used some type of sealant goop that hardens when it dries, forget it, you'll need a new gasket, and have a heck of a time removing the old one.

Old gasket sealant is probably the number one cause of new gasket leakage. If residual sealant is on the mating surface(s), it will form gaps between the aluminum and the gasket that allow oil to escape from the engine.

[BassCliff]

A few thoughts

Hi Mr. newvined,

The Suzuki Service Manual (available for download on my site) states 6.5 lb-ft torque for the cylinder head cover bolts (see page 2-9). This is the torque for the paper gaskets. If you used a Real Gasket (reusable silicone rubber), they tighten to 15 inch-pounds of torque. You need a special wrench for inch-pounds.

If you used a Real Gasket and tightened it to 10 foot-pounds, then it's way over tight. You've cut the gasket and caused leaks.

If you used a paper gasket, I don't think 10 foot-pounds would break anything, but I always recommend following the manual procedure. (My guides are meant to familiarize the new mechanic with the procedure and are not meant to replace the manual.) Are your surfaces clean and smooth? No left over gasket material stuck on there? No nicks or gouges on the cover surfaces?

In some cases, the white Permatex thread sealer is good to use. I would not use anything stronger on bolts that have to be removed for periodic maintenance.

Yes, you can re-torque the valve cover bolts again. It's always a good idea to re-check them within about 100 miles after a valve check.

See Mr. bwringer's guide for replacing the cam chain tensioner seals: http://www.bwringer.com/gs/camchaintens.html

Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[49er]

You've had some good advice here.
How many miles on your bike? By reading of some of your previous posts, your engine sounds in reasonable shape. You said that you cleaned some oil and gunk from around the valve cover and head areas. This usually indicates that the cover gasket has been leaking for some time.

I'm not sure if your '82 has a steel or plastic airbox. The early 850's were steel and the engine breather tract rusts with years of condensation.
Once they completely block, the engine pressurises all gasket and sealing areas off the crankcase and cylinders. Oil is pushed past seals such as on the cam chain tensioner, the speedo drive coupling, the oil pressure sensor mount and even the clutch activation rod seal. The pressure also has an affect on oil burning when the rings are aging and the compression numbers are getting low.
If your oil leaks are restricted to mainly around the speedo drive and the cam chain tensioner areas, check out the above.

[Billy Ricks]

Here's how to service the tensioner. If you run into trouble the link given earlier has a pictorial guide to servicing it.

With the tensioner removed from the cylinder block loosen the lock nut on the left side of the tensioner and back the slotted bolt out ¼ turn. Turn the knob on the right side of the tensioner, which in the Suzuki service manual is called a lock shaft handle, counterclock-wise. As you are turning the knob counterclock-wise push the pushrod all the way back. Keep turning the knob until it refuses to turn any further.

With the pushrod still pushed in as far as it will go tighten the slotted bolt so that the pushrod will not plunge out.

Remount the tensioner to the cylinder block. If the tensioner is not going in turn the crankshaft clockwise slowly to get slack in the cam chain on the intake side of the block.

Loosen the slotted bolt ¼ turn allowing the pushrod to advance towards the cam chain. Tighten the lock nut but leave the slotted bolt loose by that ¼ turn.

While turning the knob counterclock-wise, slowly rotate the crankshaft in reverse direction, counterclock-wise. This causes the chain to push the pushrod back.

Release the knob and slowly turn the crankshaft in the normal direction, clockwise. You should see the knob rotate as the chain becomes progressively tighter. If it does the pushrod is obviously moving forward under spring pressure signifying the tensioner is in good operable condition. If it moves sluggishly or not at all that means the pushrod or the slotted bolt is sticking. If so remove the tensioner from the block again and inspect the pushrod. It could need cleaning or could be bent or galled. Further crank rotation will take the slack out of the cam chain.

[newvined]

Bass Cliff,
I know this is a late reply, but I want to follow up on this.

I have bought a valve gasket from the dealer each time I've replaced it so its a factory gasket and as I recall its paper. I also used the form a gasket stuff on both sides of the factory gasket. This is what we torqued to 10 ft/lbs. (Would the paper gasket still tear in this case?) I made sure the old material was gone and the surfaces seemed to be in good smooth shape.

I am not sure yet if I should replace it again, and if I do should I do it the same way? It was not leaking until this long road trip. My buddies suggested that the engine heat from the long ride probably caused the bolts to loosen. We tightened them down and kept going.

The permatex thread sealer seems like a good idea if I redo it.

Thanks for the input, and please offer any further thoughts.

David Newvine
82 GS850L

[Suzuki mad]

Inside the tensioner are two O rings that seal in the oil. (check the microfiche.)

Check where the oil is leaking from, either the main paper gasket or from where the tensioner exterior knob and spring are.

Suzuki mad

[JHawkins]

the first gasket I changed on my 750 I used an aftermarket gasket that had two pieces of the gasket material connected between the ends of the cams to hold the gaskets shape. I did not remove those pieces. The material when it soaked up some oil and then heated up on a long run it SHRUNK. It pulled the gasket enough that it ripped and then started flowing ridiculous amounts of oil down the side of the engine.

Not saying this is what happened to yours, but it is something to look at.

OH, and after that I ordered a RealGasket silicone gasket, only like 5 bucks more than the aftermarket, money well spent!

[newvined]

49er,
To answer your questions (finally!!) the bike has 32,000 miles on it, and it has a plastic air box.

Yes, when I replaced the valve cover gasket the 1st time I think I removed the original gasket. It was very difficult to remove, but I took my time and made sure to get it all off of both surfaces. I only used a paper gasket (ordered from a dealership) the 1st time. The 2nd time I replaced the half moons, and also used the form a gasket on both sides of the factory gasket.

Like I told Bass Cliff it didn't leak until the road trip, and it was obvious some of the breather cover bolts, and valve cover bolts were loose.

So I'm not sure what my best course of action should be next. Do I replace it all again, or should I try torquing it down again only this time with the right amount of torque?

Thanks for your reply, and as always any further advice is welcome.

David Newvine
82 GS850L

[newvined]

JHawkins,
WOW!! That sounds familiar. I didn't cut those ends either. Not until after the leaking began. So it looks like I need to replace it yet again.

Who did you get the RealGasket from. Will a dealership sell those? I don't have any other local options besides a dealer.

Thanks for the reply

David Newvine

[JHawkins]

You order them direct from realgaskets, they work great. Search around the site a bit and you will see quite a few folks use them.

http://www.realgaskets.com/

Biggest thing to remember as mentioned above, they are torqued really low on the bolts as the silicone will get damaged easy with too much torque.

Fully reuseable and I believe they guarantee them forever is torqued correctly.

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. newvined,

You can get a Real Gasket at realgaskets.com. There are a couple of choices for the 850, depending on the year and bolt pattern. You may need the RG-GS850-G2 if you have the 19 bolt pattern. My bike ('80) uses the 16 bolt cover.

As for leaking, I've heard about several riders developing mysterious leaks. The cause was a clogged breather passage at the top of the airbox. This will cause the engine to pressurize and force oil out where it would not normally exit.

When I used a paper valve cover gasket, I always trimmed off that extra material supporting the ends. Now I know why.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff