Piston ring positions - How critical???

[80GS750]

i just got my 1000 back on the road, new rings installed....

mine are spaced correctly but not at the perfect interval the manual says..

everyone else is correct here in saying that as long as the gaps dont line up you will be fine

i have over 500 miles on mine now and the rings have seated nicely and it runs great!!!

[juicydangershow]

As a note:

The rings on this are not new. They are the old rings and only pulled the cylinders to prevent a base gasket leak after taking the head off. New rings, honing and everything else was not really an option at this time (money, time, etc. limits me on how far I can feasibly go with "rebuilding" this).

I have decided that I am not going to go back in at this time. Everyone's advice was helpful and appreciated... and I can see both schools of thought. One is to do it perfect and exactly as outlined by the shop manual, and the other is "get out and ride the damn thing!" I have to go with the latter for now. I'll post updates after it gets running, although I don't own a compression gauge tester, so I won't have hard numbers to report.

To answer a previous question about the oil rings:

The oil ring gaps seemed to be pretty much 180 degrees apart from on the top and bottom of all the oil rings and did not seem to move easily at all in relation to one another, so I didn't mess with them. I did not pay too close attention to their relation to the TOP and 2nd ring when hand pushing the pistons into the cylinders, but the oil ring gaps are so tiny uncompressed it probably wont matter so much anyhow.

[TheCafeKid]

As a note:

The rings on this are not new. They are the old rings and only pulled the cylinders to prevent a base gasket leak after taking the head off. New rings, honing and everything else was not really an option at this time (money, time, etc. limits me on how far I can feasibly go with "rebuilding" this).

I have decided that I am not going to go back in at this time. Everyone's advice was helpful and appreciated... and I can see both schools of thought. One is to do it perfect and exactly as outlined by the shop manual, and the other is "get out and ride the damn thing!" I have to go with the latter for now. I'll post updates after it gets running, although I don't own a compression gauge tester, so I won't have hard numbers to report.

To answer a previous question about the oil rings:

The oil ring gaps seemed to be pretty much 180 degrees apart from on the top and bottom of all the oil rings and did not seem to move easily at all in relation to one another, so I didn't mess with them. I did not pay too close attention to their relation to the TOP and 2nd ring when hand pushing the pistons into the cylinders, but the oil ring gaps are so tiny uncompressed it probably wont matter so much anyhow.

In my learning process, I did a top end on one of my 8v 750 motors that went in my cafe project. I didnt realize at the time how important honing was in the rebuild process, but i also didnt change the rings out either. They were in spec according to my caliper and the manual, so i left well enough alone. I did change the gasket cos the one that was on there had god knows how many miles on it, and was pretty much trashed when i removed the jugs. I also did the rings by hand, tho i have found later on when helping with Steves son's 850 motor, the hose clamp method works pretty damn well, and makes things MUCH easier than fighting with the jugs while trying to keep the rings compressed and lined up. I dunno if i got lucky in not honing the bores, or because i didnt change the rings, it didnt seem to change things at all. Put everything back together and she's running just fine (tho a little rich right now cos i havent quite got my needles dialed in) and NO leaks at all. She sounds great, much smoother than the motor that originally came in the bike, which will be getting completely SPLIT and rebuilt with 850 pistons and jugs soon.

[flyingace]

I'll also put in a plug for the hose clamp method. It allows you to lock the rings in place before you insert into the cylinder. You don't have to worry about them moving around during insertion. That alone makes it the best method (IMO), besides how easy it makes getting the pistons in.

[juicydangershow]

I disagree. I found the hose clamps awkward to use, not nearly a good finish on the inner surface to be clamping against the piston and ring sides and hard to take off after the piston is inserted. You have to unscrew the entire clamp. Most clamps have the screw built in so it wont fall out, but that is a possibility too. Don't want the screw falling in the crank as you remove the clamp in an awkward position. The rings also can get wedged into the cylinder tapered area as the pistons move up and the jugs start moving down. If you must use a clamping method... go out and get a real ring compressor with a nice inner surface and a better release method than screw clamps.

At least with my 850, I just oiled the pistons, rings, cylinders and finger pressed them up in there. The rings didn't seem to squirm around on me (although as noted I positioned them incorrectly before inserting them!). I thought that worked easier than anything else would have.

[GavinJuice]

At least with my 850, I just oiled the pistons, rings, cylinders and finger pressed them up in there. The rings didn't seem to squirm around on me (although as noted I positioned them incorrectly before inserting them!). I thought that worked easier than anything else would have.

Well now that you said THIS, you should pull it apart again. Install everything DRY, wipe the cylinder walls down with a clean terry cloth / WD40 and reinstall everything DRY. Also i would re-hone, but thats your choice. When you install everything all oiled up there is a very good chance the cylinder walls will glaze up.
I just thought i would mix everything up again ~Gavin

[TheCafeKid]

Well now that you said THIS, you should pull it apart again. Install everything DRY, wipe the cylinder walls down with a clean terry cloth / WD40 and reinstall everything DRY. Also i would re-hone, but thats your choice. When you install everything all oiled up there is a very good chance the cylinder walls will glaze up.
I just thought i would mix everything up again ~Gavin

Eh?? where did you get this info from? It says right in the manual to oil the rings when installing them. They wont glaze. Oil will burn right off in the first couple strokes.

[GavinJuice]

I'm sure the manual says during a break in to pus$y-foot it for at least a thousand miles too? Get some mojo brewing cauz your in for a read.... www.mototuneusa.com

[tkent02]

Eh?? where did you get this info from? It says right in the manual to oil the rings when installing them. They wont glaze. Oil will burn right off in the first couple strokes.

Every engine I've ever seen put together has been oiled.
Works fine, lasts a long time.
How silly.

Let's just fill the cylinders with sand to prevent glazing.
Or dead bugs. Grasshoppers and crickets.
Maybe use some marbles.
Yeah, that'll work.

[tkent02]

I'm sure the manual says during a break in to pus$y-foot it for at least a thousand miles too?
Nobody does that, get real.

[TheCafeKid]

No, actually, the manual simply states not to maintain a constant RPM/speed while in the break in period. Says nothing about pussy footing it atall.

[psyguy]

I'm sure the manual says during a break in to pus$y-foot it for at least a thousand miles too? Get some mojo brewing cauz your in for a read.... www.mototuneusa.com

hey, theres a specific forum for RELIGIOUS debates

[tkent02]

hey, theres a specific forum for RELIGIOUS debates

But we are not worthy of this alleged forum.

[GavinJuice]

This is nothing religous, it's just always a touchy subject and old school of thought (i think.) It's just like the synthetic debate, it ruined my engine!! Honestly take a look at that site and you will be blown away. I've done plenty of reading on it, any many people out there believe in the the same method of break in.

Do you really think these billion dollar companies would recommend having a new engine of theirs redlined and driven the **** out of them initially? Nah, they gotta protect their asses.

[TheCafeKid]

Ive never bought into the "break-in miles" BS. Granted, im not going to take a freshly built motor out and hotshift it, and run it thru the red in every gear, but drag racers, car racers and the like rebuild the motors on their cars on a pretty regular basis, if not after every race. They dont put 1000 miles on them before running them next time either. Now, I know we're talking about RACE built motors vs street motors, and longevity is factored in and all that, but as long as i feel ive given it what its needed to seat the rings, wear in whatever needs worn in, and the like, I sure as hell aint runnin around soccer momin' it. These motors are made to be ridden hard. Thats why they dont get into the powerband untill 5-6k rpm. Im a firm believer in Taking it easy on a motor can be just as bad for it as running the chit out of it. My grandpa had a 81 Chevy Silverado that he had completely restored from the frame up (dont ask me why, he was a strange old man) and he drove it like, well, a grandpa. It was given to me by my grandma after he died. That thing drove like a dream untill you hit 55 when i first got it. Why? Cos it had NEVER seen faster than 55. 60mph it ran like dog ass. I took it out for a couple weeks and drove the crap out of it till it spat out all that built up carbon and what not, then that thing ran better than it ever did.