New regulator - not charging - sorry so long...

[portdave]

Fairly new to all this but I have learned so much in the last 4 weeks since I purchased this bike. 78 750.

I knew it had some charging and electrical issues when I purchase the bike. I went thru the stator papers and determined that the stator was okay. All 3 legs at 59-60 volts at @ 5K rpm. Got a new voltage regulator from RMstator. I also got an interstate AGM battery. I one that came with the bike was reversed on the + and - location.

I spent a lot of time also wiring in a new wire harness. The old one was pretty bad and was cut into a lot. I put a new inline fuse in and also a fuse for the relay coil mod.

The voltage regulator has all 3 wires from the stator and then the negative goes to the engine bolt where the negative from the battery is also mounted. The positive from the regulator I hooked into the red on the wire harness.

I was really careful and spent alot of time staring at the wiring diagram and reading all the other papers for the coil relay and multiple posts here.

After firing up the bike today, I felt pretty good about everything working but then I checked the voltage and I was only getting about 12.7 at about 3-4k rpm. The voltage before starting is about the same. Drops with initial start to about 11 and goes back up to the 12.7. With the lights or blinkers drops slightly to about 12.4 or so.

I tried rerouting the positive out of the regulator straight to the battery terminal but I get the same results.

I was going to put the negative to the battery but the wire was too short. It should be okay with the ring terminal touching the same bolt as the negative battery cable.

All new pos and neg lead cables also. Cleaned the battery tray and cleaned all contact points.

I am wondering if I have a bad brand new regulator.

Any thoughts appreciated greatly. Sorry so long....

[Clone]

So I take it there are only 5 wires on your new regulator. I would check the new regulator I will try and scan the appropriate page out of the service manual and email it to you, PM me your email address and I will get that off to you today.
What were the Ohm readings from your stator, the voltage is low for the stock stator but is ok, just means it is on its way out, should last out the season. RMstator seems like a good co. to deal with, so on monday call them and ask them about the regulator, I believe there is a warranty on it.

[portdave]

So I take it there are only 5 wires on your new regulator. I would check the new regulator I will try and scan the appropriate page out of the service manual and email it to you, PM me your email address and I will get that off to you today.
What were the Ohm readings from your stator, the voltage is low for the stock stator but is ok, just means it is on its way out, should last out the season. RMstator seems like a good co. to deal with, so on monday call them and ask them about the regulator, I believe there is a warranty on it.

Yes there are only 5 wires on this unit. I have the clymer manual for the bike but since it was an aftermarket unit I wasn't sure what test to do for the regulator. I will look at it again. I have to relook at the ohm readings but they were all okay according to the stator papers when I first did the test to determine it was a faulty R/R unit.

I was planning on a Monday call to them.

Thanks so much for the reply.

David

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi Mr. portdave,

Sorry I'm late welcoming you. Impressive work, replacing your whole wiring harness. I spliced in a little extra wire in order to ground the r/r directly to the battery. That way there's no question. Take a careful look at your stator again. There should be virtually no difference in the output between the legs, no continuity to ground on any leg, resistance between the legs should be virtually the same - all around 1 ohm. Of course, I guess you know all this already. Forgive me if I state the obvious.

So, I'll just shut up and present your mega-welcome!

Dear fellow GS rider,

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)!

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***********************************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:

http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:

http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:

http://cycleorings.com

Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:

http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php

http://www.electrosport.com/

For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):

http://www.realgaskets.com

Carolina Cycle

http://www.carolinacycle.com

Ron Ayers Motorsports

http://www.ronayers.com

MR Cycles

http://www.mrcycles.com

Moto Grid

http://www.motogrid.com

Salvage/Used

http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

http://www.ozpowersports.com/

If all else fails, try this:

http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/

Used bike buying checklists:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html

Lots of good info/pictures here:

http://www.suzukicycles.org

http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki

http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm
Online Clymer manuals:
http://search.ebscohost.com/ Click on "Small Engine Repair" then "Motorcycles". User=library, password=library. Note: This link may not work if you are on a school campus.

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

[portdave]

Cliff,

Thanks so much for the mega welcome and the info. I have learned so much from reading all the good stuff on your website. I really appreciate all the info you have taken the time to pass on. God bless.

I did get 1 ohm on all 3 stator wires with no continuity to ground. Also the 60 volts I got on all 3 wires today was only at about 4k rpm. But when I did the test 4 weeks ago I am pretty sure I got a higher but consistent reading. My friend that goes to my church is a mechanic and we ran the test according to the papers and got the right voltage for the stator. Pretty sure that it is okay. I also pulled the cover and visually inspected it for a burnt look etc. and it looked okay.

I am not sure if the tests are the same for an aftermarket regulator but..

I may also extend the ground wire to the battery just to rule that out but my wire is currently at the factory ground point on the back of the engine on the same bolt as the neg cable.

Perplexing. I was hoping that all would have worked great but the good news is all else is working awesome. Bike fires right up and runs smooth. Just don't want to wear out that new battery.

David

[Clone]

Recently, I replaced the stator with one from RMstators and an8wire r/r that a mechanic friend of mine gave me. I did notice that the Ricks r/r may have given up the ghost so I replaced the stator. Now I get 14.5V consistently from 1500rpm up to redline. It is still a day to day watch, I am not convinced that it is all ok yet. So everyday I check the voltage and the output at 5000 just to be sure that it is all good. Probably paranoia on my part. I just hate electrical. So I hope that you get your bike sorted out.

[portdave]

Recently, I replaced the stator with one from RMstators and an8wire r/r that a mechanic friend of mine gave me. I did notice that the Ricks r/r may have given up the ghost so I replaced the stator. Now I get 14.5V consistently from 1500rpm up to redline. It is still a day to day watch, I am not convinced that it is all ok yet. So everyday I check the voltage and the output at 5000 just to be sure that it is all good. Probably paranoia on my part. I just hate electrical. So I hope that you get your bike sorted out.

I know what you mean. I will probably be checking this out for awhile once I get it figured out. You are probably okay. Might want to get a little voltage guage on the handlebar if they make them for bikes. JK.

Thanks for the well wishes.

[portdave]

more testing

I tried testing the original R unit off the bike with the diode test. I had never even used this feature on my meter. I was able to get some voltage but most was low and I only got readings of less than .5 volts with the polarity switched. I couldn't get any readings of 1.5 with the red lead on the red wire to the other "yellow" wires.

I tried this on the new unit but was not positive of my testing technique. I definitely did not get any good readings but it might be user error.

I will be calling rmstator today. I also had trouble with the wire harness connector for the new regulator. It has a 6 wire connector that plugs in and one of the red wires came out and the ground wire is loose in the plastic housing. Seemed a little flimsy...

[portdave]

Update

Just wanted to give an update to this thread. I sent back the original unit from RMstator and it was testing bad by their people.

In the meantime I did get a used unit from Duane and once I fully charged my battery I was getting charging. Not as high as some people (14.5 without lights 13.5 with lights) but it is working. I did run the neg right to the battery. Extending the neg wire.

It may be that my stator is just a little tired. Also may be since this is an older 12 pole stator setup the numbers are a little lower. I will keep an eye on it but for now I will move on to other areas. Just wanted to give an update.

BTW I rode the bike the last 4 out of 5 days.

David