Carb newbie needs a little help

[ttorrey]

Hey guys

I've read up on the carb cleaning and searched around, but I have some basic beginner's questions.

My bike is a 1981 GS850G that my dad just gave me. It had been sitting in a shed unused for a couple years. After I put a new battery in it it started fine but would never idle when I closed the choke. Now it seems like I wore it out, as it won't even idle with the choke on. Won't really even turn over. Yes, there was a little bit of gas in there when I got the bike, which I did not drain (regrettably). I added new gas with some B12. Should I drain it out completely?

I am hoping a good carb cleaning will get her running. But I am embarrassed to say that I cannot get the fuel tank off. Manuals say just unscrew the bolt under the seat and lift it off, but there seems to be a hinge at the top end attached under the control display that prevents me from removing it. There is also an electrical wire running from the inside underneath area of the fuel tank to the area near the battery. How do I disconnect that?

And it seems straightforward enough to remove the carbs from the 4 connections, but there is cable attachment in the middle of the carb that seems like it needs to be removed first.

I hope I don't sound too much like a baby. I am confident I can get the job done and am excited about learning. But everything I've read assumes that the carb is already removed from the bike... How do I get it out!? :-)

Thanks,

Thomas

[Skyboy8950]

Ok,

1. Yes, do the carb cleaning as per the guide from this website. There are links everywhere.

2. The tank unbolts like you have done. It is on two rubber pegs. Once you lift the rear of the tank, slide the tank back and voila!

3. You need to disconnect a few things from the tank first. Fuel line, vacuum line (which goes to carb #2 [from the left]), and the two wires coming from the fuel gauge. They are "bullet" connectors and just pull apart from eachother. BTW they suck. A long vent tube will come with your tank. When you put it back on, you just have to reroute the tube through the frame.

4. There are two connections to the carbs. Throttle and choke. They detach differently, but grab a manual and it is easy.

It is fun to pull these guys apart. Have fun!

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi Mr. ttorrey,

Please check out my little BikeCliff website for lots of 850G lovin'! Now here's your mega-welcome!

Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)!

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***********************************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:

http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:

http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:

http://cycleorings.com

Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:

http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php

http://www.electrosport.com/

For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):

http://www.realgaskets.com

Carolina Cycle

http://www.carolinacycle.com

Ron Ayers Motorsports

http://www.ronayers.com

MR Cycles

http://www.mrcycles.com

Moto Grid

http://www.motogrid.com

Salvage/Used

http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

http://www.ozpowersports.com/

If all else fails, try this:

http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/

Used bike buying checklists:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html

Lots of good info/pictures here:

http://www.suzukicycles.org

http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki

http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm
Online Clymer manuals:
http://search.ebscohost.com/ Click on "Small Engine Repair" then "Motorcycles". User=library, password=library. Note: This link may not work if you are on a school campus.

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)

[tommyboxes]

Rust

Tank sat for a couple of years half empty. Hmmmmm check for rust. just picked up a 1980 750 and couldnt get it to run there was to much rust in the tank. It is pointless to clean the carbs just to ad rust to them again . get you tank clean then go from there.

[Roostabunny]

You're certainly in the right place, Thomas.

I've got the same exact bike. I'm jealous of your rear rack with built-in pannier mounts - wish I had a spare headlight to trade you.

For the tank, advice so far is perfect - un-bolt, disconnect fuel gauge wire, fuel line, and vacuum line, tip up from the back and pull back and slightly up. The mounts are rubber, which means three things...

1.) Wiggling back and forth helps with getting it off
2.) They are not firmly attached to the frame, so watch where they go if they fall off.
3.) Wiggling pack and forth with the addition of a spritz of WD40 or PB Blaster will really help with getting the tank back on

If it leaks fuel from the petcock when you disconnect the fuel line (and it's in either the RUN or RES position you should replace your petcock, but in my opinion you can plug it with a crimped length of fuel line when it's off the bike till you get a new one. Depending on the rust situation you might need one anyway. The PRI position lets fuel flow no matter what, so don't have it there when you disconnect.

For the Carb re-build (which I agree is a good idea) Basscliff's welcome post has the link for Robert Barr's site, and $13 or so gets you all new carb o-rings. As long as you're making the order, I'd get intke o-rings and hex bolts for those boots. I did it on the first try, but I studied my manual and the carb rebuild series a couple of times first.

Can't help with the rust-in-tank thing except to agree that you should definately figure out is you have that problem and fix it before running that fuel through your nice clean carbs.

Let us know how it goes and good luck! It's a sweet and reliable ride with some TLC. I've done almost all the stuff mentioned in Brian Wringer's list-of-things-that-should-be-checked-on-a-gs850, and I now do 250-300mi/week in commuting and errands.

[ttorrey]

Great responses! Thanks so much. I'll let you know it goes. Where can I get a copy of Brian's article?

And thanks for the comment about the rear rack! I have the Samsonite luggage for it, but it's so outdated I'm not sure when I would use it (for a long trip I guess). The bike had a Windjammer installed, and I dismounted that and stole the headlight from it and put that on the bike naked. Looks good. I also took the turn signal bulbs and jimmy-rigged them into some $3 "clearance light" shells. Actually looks kind of cool accept for all the wiring (and electric tape) bundled up by the forks... It's just a temporary solution, don't worry. I'll get real turn signals soon.

And yes, I already purchased the o-rings and all the rest from Barr's site. Thanks!

[ttorrey]

I got the fuel tank off. My seat was after market and wasn't allowing enough clearance to raise the tank to its needed height before it would give from the hinges.

However, I am still having trouble disconnecting the choke and throttle cables. I have an '81 GS850GX and my manual (downloaded from BassCliff's site) says to unscrew the to and from throttle cables. I have only one throttle cable, and for the life of me I can't see how either that or the choke cable can disconnect easily from the carb. There's nothing to unscrew (that I can see).

Any help or links to places that would is help is appreciated.

[ttorrey]

Ah, I see. The cable end knob slides out and disconnects. I got it.

[Roostabunny]

Ah, I see. The cable end knob slides out and disconnects. I got it.

Nice going - I guess you got it. Yeah, a lot of these bikes have two throttle cables too, but not ours - just the one cable.

The bigger hint is to hook up that throttle cable to the carbs before you remount them. Goes a lot easier. It's easier getting it out that way too, but I'm sure you managed. But it's really hard getting that barrel-end rotated to the cable slot while holding the throttle open from underneath. With the carbs upside down, though - easy peasy.

Meanwhile, as you saw, the choke cable connection is a little simpler - just undo the pinch bolt that holds the cable housing and take the tension off the cable. Then twist to the side to find the cable access slot.