Newbie with a problem (you'll never guess!)

[QuikGS]

Hey Guys! I have joined your ranks with my recent purchase of an 81 GS450TX. I love the bike, it runs like a tank! That is to say, it runs good when its charged!

I have been searching, reading, and learning lots in the last couple of weeks. I want to thank the admins and editors of this site for hosting such a great wealth of knowledge, especially the stator papers.

It seems that I have a bit of a charging gremlin (told you it was a hard one!).

I have read many posts with similar symptoms, but none of the solutions seem to solve my problem. I was hoping that we could put our collective minds together and deduce a plan of attack.

-All of my ground points are clean, and show continuity. (how many ohms should i look for?)
-previous owner had the battery on a trickle charger and the battery still wouldnt store, so I replaced it. Bike started and ran great for about 3 days and then my problems returned.
-The starter and solenoid work when they are able to draw enough current.
-I can start the bike and let it idle, which leads me to believe that the problem isn't in the ignition or coils. The second I turn on the headlights, it dies. After that, there isnt enough juice to power the electric starter. (Ive become a pro at bump starting!)
-with the bike running in neutral, it will run with headlights if i keep the RPMs up around 4k. This leads me to believe that my stator is generating a charge under load.
-left rear blinker wont flash, however bulb filament and connector wires are good. Perhaps there is resistance further up the harness?

It seems to me that the bike is generating a charge and simply not storing it in the battery. I would really appreciate any input or advice as to a logical next step, as I am running out of ideas.

Thanks for reading through yet another newbie charging problem.

[Steve]

First of all ...

BassCliff will be along shortly to do his little thing.

You have been looking in the right areas, but have you also read The Stator Papers? It is a wonderful guide that will take you and your multi-meter down the path that will determine just what is wrong with your charging system.

About the turn signal issue ... have you tested the light itself to verify that it lights? Did you use a test light or a meter to verify that you have power coming to the light socket? If both of those items are good, you have a ground problem. The ground wire for the rear signals is connected under the seat, along with all the other connections for the rear lights. Clean or replace the bullet connectors to see if that doesn't help.

Now, while you are waiting for other replies, how about updating your profile to include your bike and your location. Sometimes it helps getting information to know what we are talking about, and there just might be someone close to you that can stop by and give you a hand.


.

[QuikGS]

Thanks Steve. I have read through the stator papers, FAQ's, and the forum, and i have to say im very impressed. I want to make sure that there arent any other possible faults before I dive headlong into the stator flowchart.

I am using a AC/DC multimeter, and was checking impedance with the setting that gives an audible tone and ohm reading. I know the power to the light should be ~12V, however is there an acceptable power range (+/- 12V?)

Thanks again for the input, you guys are great.

Im in Huntington Beach, CA BTW. If anyone wants to stop by, the beer is on me!

[rphillips]

Did you connect the meter to the battery, volts = ?, start engine volts @ idle = ?, volts @ 2,000rpm = ?, volts @ 5000 = ?.

[BassCliff]

Hee Haw Howdy!

Hi Mr. QuickGS,

If you have a new battery (and it's been properly initialized), and you have cleaned every connector and ground on the entire wiring harness (from headlight bucket to tail light), and you have run the ground wire from the regulator/rectifier directly to the negative terminal of the battery, and you're still having charging issues, then it is definitely time to dive into the stator papers in earnest. The first thing you need to do is see what DC voltage your battery sees across the terminal at idle (~13v+) and at around 4000-5000rpm (~14v+). This will tell you a lot about your charging system. The rest is in the stator papers. Here is your mega-welcome!


Let it be known that on this day you are cordially and formally welcomed to the GSR Forum as a Junior Member in good standing with all the rights and privileges thereof. Further let it be known that your good standing can be improved with pictures (not you, your bike)!

Perhaps you've already seen these, but I like to remind all the new members. In addition to the carb rebuild series, I recommend visiting the In The Garage section via the GSR Homepage and check out the Stator Papers. There's also a lot of great information in the Old Q&A section. I have some documentation on my little BikeCliff website to help get you familiar with doing routine maintenance tasks (note that it is 850G-specific but many tasks are common to all GS bikes). Other "user contributed" informational sites include those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. tfb and Mr. robertbarr. And if your bike uses shims for valve adjustments, send an email to Mr. Steve requesting a copy of his Excel spreadsheet that helps you keep track of clearances, shim sizes and other service work.

These are some edited quotes from one of our dear beloved gurus, Mr. bwringer, with ideas on basic needs (depending on initial condition), parts, and accessories.
***********Quoted from Mr. bwringer************
Every GS850 (and most other models) has (or had) a set of well-known issues that MUST be addressed before you have a solid baseline for further troubleshooting. It's a vintage bike, and it's quite common (as in, every single GS850 I have had contact with) that there are multiple problems that have crept up and slowly gotten worse over the years. It's not like a newer vehicle, where there's generally one problem at a time.

These common issues are:

1. Intake O-rings (install NEW OEM or Viton only - common nitrile O-rings will quickly deteriorate from heat)
2. Intake Boots (install NEW -- these cannot be repaired)
3. Valve clearances (more important than most people think)
4. Carb/airbox boots
5. Airbox sealing
6. Air filter sealing
7. Petcock (install a NEW one)
8. On '79 models, install new points or Dyna electronic ignition (or at least verify that the old points are working correctly)
9. On all models, it's fairly common to have problems with the spark plug caps. These are $3 or $4 each, and often worth replacing if you're keeping the stock coils/wires.
10. Stock exhaust with NO leaks or holes -- good seals at the head and at the junctions underneath.
***********************************
Carburetor maintenance:

Replace the intake boot o-rings, and possibly the intake boots. Here's the procedure:

http://bwringer.com/gs/intakeorings.html

Here's an overview of what happens with this particular problem:

http://cycleorings.com/intake.html

You'll also want to examine the boots between the carbs and the airbox. There's a good chance these are OK, but check them over.
And finally, if things still aren't exactly right, you'll want to order a set of o-rings for BS carbs from the GS owner's best friend, Robert Barr:

http://cycleorings.com

Once you receive these rare rings of delight, then you'll want to thoroughly clean and rebuild your carburetors. Here are step-by-step instructions that make this simple:

http://thegsresources.com/gs_carbrebuild.htm

***************************************
OEM Parts/Online Fiches:

I would definitely double and triple the recommendations to use Cycle Recycle II and Z1 Enterprises as much as possible. These guys are priceless resources. Z1 tends to have slightly better prices, CRC2 has a wider range of goodies available. If you're near Indy and can bring in an old part to match, CRC2 has a vast inventory of used parts.
http://denniskirk.com - Put in your bike model and see what they have.
http://oldbikebarn.com - seems to be slowly regaining a decent reputation, but it's still caveat emptor. They don't have anything you can't get elsewhere at a better price anyway.
http://www.babbittsonline.com/ - Decent parts prices. Spendy shipping. Don't give you part numbers at all. Useful cross-reference if you obtain a part number elsewhere. Efficient service.
http://bikebandit.com - Fastest. Middlin' prices. Uses their own parts numbering system to obfuscate price comparisons -- can be very confusing for large orders. Cheapest shipping, so total cost usually isn't too bad.
http://flatoutmotorcycles.com - Slow. Cheapest parts prices, crazy shipping costs. Don't expect progress updates or much communication. Real Suzuki part numbers.
http://alpha-sports.com - Exorbitant parts prices. Different type of fiche interface that's quite useful at times, especially with superceded part numbers. Real parts numbers. Shipping cost and speed unknown due to insane, unholy pricing.

Stainless Bolts, Viton o-rings, metric taps, dies, assorted hard-to-find supplies and materials, etc:

http://mcmaster.com - Fast, cheap shipping, good prices. No order minimum, but many items like bolts come in packs of 25 or 50. Excellent resource.
http://motorcycleseatcovers.com - Great quality, perfect fit (on original seat foam), and available for pretty much every bike ever made. Avoid the textured vinyl -- it's perforated.
http://newenough.com - You DO have riding gear, don't you? Great clearances, always outstanding prices and impeccable service.
***************End Quote**********************
Additional parts/info links:

GSR Forum member Mr. duaneage has great used upgraded Honda regulator/rectifiers for our bikes. Send him a PM.
New electrical parts:
http://stores.ebay.com/RMSTATOR or http://www.rmstator.com/

http://www.ricksmotorsportelectrics.com/index.php

http://www.electrosport.com/

For valve cover and breather cover gaskets, I recommend Real Gaskets (reusable silicon):

http://www.realgaskets.com

Carolina Cycle

http://www.carolinacycle.com

Ron Ayers Motorsports

http://www.ronayers.com

MR Cycles

http://www.mrcycles.com

Moto Grid

http://www.motogrid.com

Salvage/Used

http://www.ricepaddymotorcycles.com

http://www.ozpowersports.com/

If all else fails, try this:

http://www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/

Used bike buying checklists:

http://www.amadirectlink.com/roadride/Riderresc/checklist.asp

http://www.clarity.net/~adam/buying-bike.html

Lots of good info/pictures here:

http://www.suzukicycles.org

http://www.cyclechaos.com/wiki/Motorcycle_Wiki

http://www.bikepics.com
Basic motorcycle maintenance/repair:
http://www.dansmc.com/mc_repaircourse.htm
Online Clymer manuals:
http://search.ebscohost.com/ Click on "Small Engine Repair" then "Motorcycles". User=library, password=library. Note: This link may not work if you are on a school campus.

Thanks for joining us. Keep us informed of your progress. There's lots of good folk with good experience here.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff
(The unofficial GSR greeter)