Carbs finally on....bogs like a bitch....

[Texatl]

If I were to color a pointy edge on a flat head and have that colored edge face me, and turn it until it reached me again is one full turn right?

You would be correct, sir!

[Johnny K]

Thanks. I havent checked my spark plugs yet. But just wondering about the whole vacuum isue thing. I shouldnt have any and i hope that it isnt a vacuum issue rather a tuning issue. But tomorrow I will tackle it again.

[hikermikem]

...I wanted to bring the idle down by the mixture screw to below 2000, it would just barely run until I turned the screw out and tried to make it idle.

I'm confused by this statement... the idle is set by the idle adjust screw, it's the large bronze colored knob located near the bottom of the carb rack on the airbox (or pods in your case) side. Turning it clockwise (in) will open the butterfiles on all the carbs & increase the idle - conversely, turning it the other way (CC wise), will lower the idle.

Playing with the mixture screws is to adjust the proper mix of air/fuel for each individual carb - the overall engine idle will indeed be affected by these changes After each carb is adjusted, reach under and set the idle to 1500 or so. Keep doing this (adjust the carbs, reset idle) until you have a happy bike.

Perhaps your assumed vaccum issue is really a mis-adjusted carb.

Good luck

[Johnny K]

Ok. Good point. But i need to bring it down to 1500 without it stalling and dying. I can't get to that point yet. Im trying to get ideas on why I cant, ya know?

[Johnny K]

Also when playin with the mixture screws im gettin a lot of popping from the intake boots. Kinda shocked at first when i see and hear it happen.

[hikermikem]

Ok. Good point. But i need to bring it down to 1500 without it stalling and dying. I can't get to that point yet. Im trying to get ideas on why I cant, ya know?

Since you've done all the right stuff so far, my guess would be the carb sync is WAY off.

Did you do a bench sync before you put the rack back on the bike after you rebuilt them?? If not, I would think that's your main issue - they have to be "close" so you can tune the mix screws & get it running decent so you can then perform the dynamic sync.

If you simply put the carbs back together after cleaning without any inkling of keeping them sync'ed, then they will not run right PERIOD.

Take them back off & do a GOOD bench sync, then try again. Should be MUCH better. These carbs are sensitive, stubborn things.

Good luck.

[Johnny K]

That will be an interesting thing for me to do being it my first time. I'm kinda reluctant only in the fact that since the bike sort of runs now and then do the benc synch and start the bike and it runs horrible to the point of not being able to fix it. That would be my only worry at this point.. But I will read up on it and i guess give it a try. I'll keep ya updated. Thanks.

[Johnny K]

Also noticed when carb cleaning the slides have a small drill hole next to the pin. I guess that's normal for the DJ system?

[Johnny K]

Say if the locknut to synch the carbs is kinda stripped. Not all the way, but can see it to be a little stripped. Is is worth unscrewing the screw all the way just to replace that nut? Or should I stay away from that altogether?

[hikermikem]

That will be an interesting thing for me to do being it my first time. I'm kinda reluctant only in the fact that since the bike sort of runs now and then do the benc synch and start the bike and it runs horrible to the point of not being able to fix it. That would be my only worry at this point.. But I will read up on it and i guess give it a try. I'll keep ya updated. Thanks.

It will run better if you start with the carbs set up correctly first:

http://members.dslextreme.com/users/...ync_notes.html

I did one thing different from the info in the above link however, I used Chef's suggestion & used a feeler gauge instead of a paper clip to set the spacing. I think it's a better way.

I had an old piece of metal shim stock (.010" thick I think) laying around, and trimmed the end of it to a strip about 1" long by 1/8" wide. (think of a tongue depresser with the end trimmed).

Open the #3 carb butterfly using the large idle knob in the back (the #3 carb doesn't have a sync screw/nut). Once open, insert your spacer along the bottom of the bore under the butterfly. Slowly close the butterfly until it hits the shim, then open it "slightly" so you can "just" remove & insert the gague in & out of the bore under the butterfly. Once you have that one set, make note of how it felt (e.g., the drag on the gauge as you put in in & out).

This is now the "standard" for how to set all the other carbs with that gauge.

Do the same for carbs #1. #2, & #4 but now you use the sync screws in the front of each carb to adjust each butterfly. Take your time & set them all to feel the exact same way as the standard (#3).

One note of caution, don't crank down the locknuts too tightly - you have to loosen them again when you do the dynamic sync on the "running" bike & they can be a real PITA to get to. Also, you'll notive that when you tighten the lock nut down the sync screw will tighten ever-so-slightly & change the gap.

Once set, hold the rack up to the light & look thrugh the #3 carb while you close the butterfly with the idle knob - close it until you can't see any light (as in "just" closed), through the carb bores. Now open it back up two turns. This should be a good place to start.

Also, I think I would reset all the mixture screws to about 2.5 - 3 turns out.

Now install the carbs back on the bike & start the idle & mixture adjusting process again.

Be ready to hit the kill switch if when you start the bike it over-revs. Turn the idle knob back a little & try again until it revs lower if that happens.

Good luck - you can do it!!

[hikermikem]

Also noticed when carb cleaning the slides have a small drill hole next to the pin. I guess that's normal for the DJ system?

Yes. I don't have a DJ kit, but i believe the larger hole allows the slides to close faster when you use s DJ kit.

[hikermikem]

Say if the locknut to synch the carbs is kinda stripped. Not all the way, but can see it to be a little stripped. Is is worth unscrewing the screw all the way just to replace that nut? Or should I stay away from that altogether?

When you do your bench sync make a decision about changing out that nut. If it's messed up, I would change it. It won't hold sync if the screw doesn't lock down. Plus, if it's jammed on it will be difficult (or impossible) to do the sync while it's on the bike.

[Johnny K]

Alright. I appreciate the help hikermikem. I'll keep ya posted a little bit later on my progress and so forth.

[Johnny K]

Alright. I actually rode my bike but with some hesitation. But nevertheless I actually rode it. Still idles weird and sometimes hangs on to high rev but comes back down slowly. To bench synch, I took a paper clip but did not have it straightened out. I forgot about that when I put them back on. I just had the paper clip flat on the bottom. Would that make a difference to have the paper clip straightened out? I then went to carb 2,1 and 4. Tried my best to make every butterfly the same width. I set all the screws to 2 1/2. Then i was going to each one from left to right and going all the in and then slowly out. I did that for all 4 of them. There was popping noises every so often while turning in and out. After a while I just slowly turned one down til it almost sputtered and then slowly went to about idle. Am I suppose to start with #3 and then go to #2, #1, and then #4 just like the bench synch? I dont really remember where my screws are at because I started about 2 1/2 and from there went to each one and turned in very slightly to each carb to just make it idle good. I guess just confused on that whole part. Also where to have the idle at when adjusting the screws. But when I did bench synch, there really wasn't much of a huge difference that i did and now to have it run doesnt seem like i did that much. When i did ride it, the idle was a little tricky. First sitting there it idled around 1500. Then I would go out in 1st and then pull the clutch in, click in neutral to adjust something and then the idle would drop and almost stall where I turned the idle screw to make it idle a little better. Then when riding from 1st to 2nd and then to a stop, my idle would be high from fiddling with it from before. So I would turn the knob till the idle was ok. Coming out of 1st to about 3000rpm, its a tad boggy, but it goes. If i rode for a couple of mins and pulled the clutch in, it would idle prolly 300-400 more. Not a huge difference like it happened in the past, but enough to know. Kinda weird but if I was rolling down a hill going about 15mph, put it in neutral, it would start to rev a little high, I would put it in 2nd and let out just to catch, it would knock the idle down a tad. If i were to let out slowly and when it catches out of 1st and to slightly roll on the throttle, it slightly bogs. But when I let out and throttle about 1/4-almost a 1/2, it wont bog to bad. When just rolling through the gears, maybe 3/4-full throttle in any gear and it farts/bogs. Rolling evenly through the rpm's til about maybe 5-6000 and it will just hesitate and not really want to go. If in any gear and decel below 3000rpm and then try to accel a little throttle or a good amount, it will bog slightly. So should I re-bench synch with the paperclip flattened out and adjust the screws differently? Hope this helps you guys.