STILL lots of blow by smoke

[chef1366]

I've got the 34's dialed in pretty close but I think I might go up one step in the mains yet. When I bought the 34's, I didn't have the '80 GS1100ET. I was working on an '83 GS1100GLD and figured the 36's would be overkill. Now I wish I would have bought the 36's but I'm happy with the performance of the 34's. It goes PLENTY fast enough for me. Stupid 85mph speedo, GAWD I hate that thing. That's on my list of items to replace eventually. It's so easy to peg that dial that I'm doing it almost daily anymore. I really have to make a conscious effort to NOT twist the throttle like that. It's tough.

Tell me about it. I hit the powerband at 6000 and by second gear the speedo is pegged.
The GS1150 36mm work pretty good but the CVs are slow off the line. Your carbs have that neato accel pump.

[don_gibb6512]

Rode the bike moderately yesterday for about 10 miles just to be sure it was good and hot. Compression test results.

Dry: 1-145 2-140 3-140 4-149

Wet: 1-175 2-180 3-188 4-180


So, I have a significant increase in compression with the wet test. My limited knowledge tells me that the rings didn't seat properly but I don't know.

My dry test numbers are down 5 lbs on 1 and 10 lbs on 2 & 3 from a couple of months ago. What exactly does THAT mean?

If I take the head off and the rings appear to be fine, is it acceptable to just hone the cylinders and reassemble?

I am so close on this dang bike. I'm chasing this problem along with a carbon fouling issue and a couple of oil leaks that I'm not sure about.

[drhach]

Your dry numbers look really good. They're consistent from across the cylinders and they are pretty good in general. I think there is a spec somewhere in your manual. You should be well within the numbers that they give. Maybe your cylinders wore unevenly. This would mean that at some point sin the stroke you could get blow-by and in others you have a tight seal. Things definitely expand when they get hotter. My bike does the same thing. I also re-ringed the engine and honed it. The bike runs great, has good compression numbers and still vents like you describe when ridden hard. I think that it just goes unnoticed when the bike is in stock form because the gases go right back in to the carbs.

If you really have to check it, when you mic the cylinders, check them at multiple points along the stroke of the cylinder. Check your ring gap at all of those points. You may be able to pick up some of the slack by decreasing the ring end gap. If that doesn't work, you either have to re-sleeve or bore. It sounds like a lot of work for no real gain though.

I think the filter idea is a good one. It'll keep the smoke to a minimum and catch some of the oil. At a minimum, it will keep the bike clean.

[gmansyz]

Blowby?

If you take it apart, recheck the rings end clearence and the piston skirt to bore clearence too. You may still need new rings. As the old ones are not so good in sealing and maybe a new hone. Don't use a "Ball" hone but a Precision Sunned hone. so the bores really are round. And if you want new rings, I have some still stashed away in the standard bore only.
Greg

[82Shafty]

Rode the bike moderately yesterday for about 10 miles just to be sure it was good and hot. Compression test results.

Dry: 1-145 2-140 3-140 4-149

Wet: 1-175 2-180 3-188 4-180


So, I have a significant increase in compression with the wet test. My limited knowledge tells me that the rings didn't seat properly but I don't know.

My dry test numbers are down 5 lbs on 1 and 10 lbs on 2 & 3 from a couple of months ago. What exactly does THAT mean?

If I take the head off and the rings appear to be fine, is it acceptable to just hone the cylinders and reassemble?

I am so close on this dang bike. I'm chasing this problem along with a carbon fouling issue and a couple of oil leaks that I'm not sure about.

You wet test shows that the rings are not seating or the cyl walls glazed during break in.

What cross hatch angle did the ring manufacture recommend? Was the cyl assembly properly set up with torque plates when it was honed? Did your machinist inform you of any taper in the cyl walls?

Did you measure the gap between the ring and the piston?

Did you measure ring gap 3/4 of the way down the cyl?

Did you properly clock the rings on the piston?

Did you use a ring expander to install the rings so as to not spiral them?

http://books.google.com/books?id=M_NDJSrpGc0C&pg=PA43&lpg=PA43&dq=honing+requires+torque+plate&source=web&ots=70eV07VTH6&sig=haY-vMdKOCnQBBssvKes7VBiMKE&hl=en&sa=X&oi=book_result&resnum=3&ct=result

http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm

I know that there are some guys on here who can do a garage build, throw some garage dirt off of their floor in the crankcase for a good luck blessing and run hard miles with no problems.

Ultimate power and durability take a wee bit more than honing cyl and throwing new rings on the old slugs.

[Nessism]

Those compression numbers are good. Tearing down the engine just to reduce the amount of fumes out of the breather seems a bit extreme at this point.

[rapidray]

PM sent Don. Ray.

[drhach]

You wet test shows that the rings are not seating or the cyl walls glazed during break in.

So, even though the numbers are pretty good, the fact that the compression went up with the wet test means that the rings are not sealing? I suppose that makes sense, but I'm having a hard time with it. Obviously the oil is sealing something. The numbers just seem too good, no matter that the wet test raises them more.

[Nessism]

So, even though the numbers are pretty good, the fact that the compression went up with the wet test means that the rings are not sealing? I suppose that makes sense, but I'm having a hard time with it. Obviously the oil is sealing something. The numbers just seem too good, no matter that the wet test raises them more.

In my experience, it’s normal for compression to increase with the wet test. If the compression does not increase when adding oil though, leakage at the valves is indicated.

[focus frenzy]

In my experience, it’s normal for compression to increase with the wet test. If the compression does not increase when adding oil though, leakage at the valves is indicated.

yep! oil is not compressible and displaces air that compresses. put oil in a cylinder and the numbers will go up. the more oil you put in the higher it will go.

140psi = 9.5-1 compression ,175psi = 11.9-1

it is a air cooled engine, get it hot and there will be smoke out the crank case breather, it is normal. NOW, if you come to a stop and are engulfed in a thick cloud of smoke, THAT, would be a problem!

my grandparents 1966 Buick electra (425ci) had a open crank case breather that just dumped the fumes right out a pipe low on the side of the engine. right off the highway it would be puffing away, this white smoke waifing up from under the car, perfectly normal. (bad for the environment though)

I work on class 8 trucks for a living (not much of a living) and every last one of them, up till the "09's introduced a separator, blow white smoke, and slobber oil on the underside of the engine.

[drhach]

So, we're back to saying that his numbers are fine. I guess it threw me when 82Shafty suggested that he had bad rings or glazing on his cylinders. Compression in the 140's is pretty respectable to me.

[paco13]

I agree, He might of added too much oil to cyls. on comp test and increased the comp ratio by decreased chamber volume.

Also, you should run a filter to keep dirt/dust out when it draws air in on the up stroke. I run a filter directly on the breather nipple.

[TheCafeKid]

Just a point of referrence. My newly aquired 1100ES doesnt have an airbox on it, and just has a filter over the crankcase breather. It smokes pretty good when hot...

[don_gibb6512]

I agree, He might of added too much oil to cyls. on comp test and increased the comp ratio by decreased chamber volume.

Also, you should run a filter to keep dirt/dust out when it draws air in on the up stroke. I run a filter directly on the breather nipple.

That's likely. I didn't measure it but it was about 2 tablespoons. I do some cooking so I can gauge that pretty well. How much are you supposed to add for a wet test?

I didn't know it was necessary to run a filter on the breather tube. There wasn't one that I recall from the factory. I just ran a really long tube down and on the right side by my foot peg so I could easily look over at it when I'm stopped.

I did measure ring gap, clocked the rings correctly, etc. before assembly and it was all within spec. I agree that there's a lot more to putting an engine together than what one might expect but "you'll never know unless you try" and I understand the risks. I can't stand not attempting something like this out of my own fear or ignorance and there are times when I over estimate my own abilities but I refuse to believe that this is beyond my capability. I'm learning, albeit slowly but surely. I do think that I have glazed the cylinders. The carbs were set up (not by me) with the accel pump coming on from the beginning of the throttle turn and I wasn't able to get the bike running hard and hot for at least the first 20 miles after the initial start up. I've backed off the accel pump quite a bit but I think I'll take it even further back to where it's not coming on until I'm at 3/4 throttle. The accel pump on the RS Flat Slides will squirt a good 3 ft. and I think that's way too much for the average street rider.

Unfortunately, the weather is going to turn to crap after tomorrow and I don't have a garage so it may be Spring before I can do any further work on this bike.

Thanks to everyone for your input. I really, really appreciate it.

Don

[TheCafeKid]

That's likely. I didn't measure it but it was about 2 tablespoons. I do some cooking so I can gauge that pretty well. How much are you supposed to add for a wet test?

I didn't know it was necessary to run a filter on the breather tube. There wasn't one that I recall from the factory. I just ran a really long tube down and on the right side by my foot peg so I could easily look over at it when I'm stopped.

I did measure ring gap, clocked the rings correctly, etc. before assembly and it was all within spec. I agree that there's a lot more to putting an engine together than what one might expect but "you'll never know unless you try" and I understand the risks. I can't stand not attempting something like this out of my own fear or ignorance and there are times when I over estimate my own abilities but I refuse to believe that this is beyond my capability. I'm learning, albeit slowly but surely. I do think that I have glazed the cylinders. The carbs were set up (not by me) with the accel pump coming on from the beginning of the throttle turn and I wasn't able to get the bike running hard and hot for at least the first 20 miles after the initial start up. I've backed off the accel pump quite a bit but I think I'll take it even further back to where it's not coming on until I'm at 3/4 throttle. The accel pump on the RS Flat Slides will squirt a good 3 ft. and I think that's way too much for the average street rider.

Unfortunately, the weather is going to turn to crap after tomorrow and I don't have a garage so it may be Spring before I can do any further work on this bike.

Thanks to everyone for your input. I really, really appreciate it.

Don

Don, if you'd like, bring it down this spring, we'll have a look at it. But i think you're really ok man. Also, if need be, and you need a place to store it out of the weather, its far from home, but I am renting a garage myself this winter, there's room if you'd like. Completely understandable if you dont want to leave it that far from home, I know Id be really hesitant to do so. But I cant bare the thought of any of my bikes, with the money ive put in them and will be putting in them over the winter, sitting out in the weather. And this place is heated too! I am renting it to work in as well, so I will be in and out of there on a regular basis, and its in a really really upper class part of the area. Crime to them is jaywalking...lol

Hopefully here in a few months I will be moving into a place with a HUGE garage, with power, and maybe heat! I cant wait...then the Ohio GS Hospital will be open for business! LOL