83gs550e New Starter Engaging While Eng Running

[GQROD]

I installed a new starter OEM.

Old starter was engaging while i was riding and finally died.

Replaced with new oem one and same thing happened-while riding starter engaged, felt like dropping to a lower gear.

Heard rumbling/schreeching noise

Now starter won't engage

Relay clicks

Seems to show 005 resistance don't know if i'm reading my meter correctly. Stock is 3-4 ohms resistance on the relay.

Could i have wired the main red and black wires incorrectly? or is the relay shot thus engaging the starter?

Your advice is greatly appreciated.

[chef1366]

That would be more of a starter clutch problem than a problem with the starter itself.
I hope you didn't fry the new starter.

[GQROD]

I installed a new starter clutch along with the new rotor.

What exactly would cause the starter clutch to engage while the engine is running?

I think the new starter is fried also i talked to the place i got it and hopefully i can exchange it for another with only a re-stocking fee.

[Agemax]

I installed a new starter clutch along with the new rotor.

What exactly would cause the starter clutch to engage while the engine is running?

I think the new starter is fried also i talked to the place i got it and hopefully i can exchange it for another with only a re-stocking fee.

gotta be a wiring problem with the starter circuit somewhere. start by checking the start button itself then work back through the wiring. could be a loose connection or a dodgy earth somewhere

[SqDancerLynn1]

Spend $15 go to HomeDepot and get a soloniod for a tractor & replace yours. Also from the sound you will need another starter. Don't forget to clean the starter button.
It may also be necessary to remove the starter clutch for inspection

[GQROD]

Excellent advice

When old starter died i did indeed put a new solenoid from Lowes and the solenoid got fried as well and stuck in the closed position it would not click. So i did not want to fry my last cheap solenoid. After of course running the bike WITHOUT the starter idler gear in place to see if it was the starter clutch and the bike ran great no problems there.

The starter is fried. Tried jumping it and no dice.

The solenoid does click and shows normal voltage on both sides of the main power cables.

Trigger circuit shows normal voltage when initiated and .01-.05 when off.

I did a continuity test to see if the yellow/green wire had a short or was grounding and it did not have continuity so it was not shorted.

I disconnected the ground wire cable on the solenoid, bump started the bike and took it out to see if the starter clutch would show a problem it did not, it ran great.

Dodgy earth makes sense! I'll check the yellow/green wire as well as the main cables for this. Continuity tests on all cables showed no shorts.

I had cleaned the switch early on during all the work i will clean it again to make sure.

When i tested the solenoid it showed .05 volt when it should have shown NO voltage on the trigger side.It may be this little amount of current is triggering the starter.

I think however improbable it may be the solenoid is bad and engaging when the engine is running.

Could a bad nuetral safety switch be causing this? Or should i just replace the solenoid?

And thank you all for your advice i have never run into this problem in all the years i worked on cars so this is frustratingly new to me.

[Agemax]

o.05 volt wont be enough to even tickle the solenoid into action. it nust be a problem in the wiring before it reaches the solenoid

[GQROD]

I'll trace the wire and see what i can find, thank you.

[GQROD]

I noticed i had attached the main cables on wrong.

According to the manual the cable to the battery should be on the right and the cable to the starter motor should have been on the left side of the factory soloenoid.

Would this have caused the starter motor to come on while the engine was running? ( reverse polarity? )

[chef1366]

I noticed i had attached the main cables on wrong.

According to the manual the cable to the battery should be on the right and the cable to the starter motor should have been on the left side of the factory soloenoid.

Would this have caused the starter motor to come on while the engine was running? ( reverse polarity? )

That wouldn't make a difference.
Are the bearings and spacers on the new starter clutch on in the right sequence?
Is the starter clutch brand new.

[GQROD]

That wouldn't make a difference.
Are the bearings and spacers on the new starter clutch on in the right sequence?
Is the starter clutch brand new.

Yes the starter clutch is new oem.

There were no spacers on the old or new starter. Just the o-ring.

I'm wondering if the starter interlock switch may be intermitently triggering the solenoid?

From what i understand the swicth on the clutch lever is supposed to prevent one from starting the engine if it is not pulled in correct?

I can hear the solenoid clicking even though i am not pulling in the clutch lever.

From what i see on the wiring diagram the yellow/green goes from the right handle bar switch go to the clutch lever switch ( interlock switch ), then to the solenoid as the trigger.

Could it be that this switch is staying closed long enough to send current to trigger the solenoid while the engine is running?

I'm going to take it apart and clean it. But i'd like your opinions on this please.

[chef1366]

The clutch interlock switch just breaks the starter button wire. The only way you could get the starter solenoid to go without pushing the starter button would be if there is a meltdown sharing a live wire in the harness.

With the starter clutch spinning around the crank faster than the actual starter can turn would it activate the clutch and spin the starter at the speed of the motor?
I could be wrong but I still think it's the starter clutch.

[GQROD]

The clutch interlock switch just breaks the starter button wire. The only way you could get the starter solenoid to go without pushing the starter button would be if there is a meltdown sharing a live wire in the harness.

With the starter clutch spinning around the crank faster than the actual starter can turn would it activate the clutch and spin the starter at the speed of the motor?
I could be wrong but I still think it's the starter clutch.

Makes sense which is why i replaced the old starter clutch with a new one. ( sharing a meltdown makes even more sense that is what i thought, have to start tracing the wires )

The old one was not bad i replaced it so i would not have these problems and have to take the rotor off again.

How would a new starter clutch fail? i ask because this is the first one i have installed. It seemed straightforward.

[GQROD]

Update

I pulled the stator cover off to check the starter clutch.

Starter clutch seems fine.

No metal shards, no broken pieces.

Turns to the right cleanly.

Does not move to the left, which is what it's supposed to do.

Starter can be rotated by hand but does not crank so it's shot.

I traced the yellow/green wire through out the entire harness and found no melted insulation or wires near it that could accidently provide trigger voltage to engage the starter while running. ( very odd )

The only thing i can think of is that the solenoid is engaging due to vibration.

Perhaps the pivot spring is so weak that it triggers itself.

Weird i know but i'm out of logical explanations.

When i was tuning the bike and test riding it after the carb rebuild i had a cheap Lowes mower solenoid that worked great. Before i put in the new rotor.

After the new rotor and stator i decided to put in the original starter relay to save space.

This is when the problems happened, the old starter never gave me any problems with the tractor relay.

So i will try to get a new starter and clean all the contacts and switches and start with a new relay. Thanks for all the advice.

[GQROD]

forums.off-road.com/jeep-short-wheelbase/62352-starter-wont-stop-running.html - 85k -
http://forums.off-road.com/jeep-shor...g.html - 85k - - 85k -


Thought this link would come in handy to explain the problem i have with the starter engaging while the engine is running.

It's an off road forum but it touches on what can happen.

I have cleaned the starter interlock switch, it was dirty and the square piece was marred well enough to stay stuck in the on position. I'll have to replace it.

However i believe the solenoid is the culprit. The above forum explains in detail how carbon build up can keep the contact closed even if intermitantly.

To be on the safe side i will be installing a high amp switch before the new relay so that no current leaks to the new relay to trip the contact after the engine is running. Two starters going bad is enough for me not to take chances.