bike down and out (again)

[shadowfist]

ok, just a couple of questions on this one, i know i have a charging system ussue (i have a new R/R to put in and i'm watching for a new stator, or will end up re-winding my own but thats beside the point)
some of you may remember my troubles with my bike stranded at a friends house. well when i got it back from his place i put new plugs in and it fired right up. i drove it two days after that and discovered that my battery was essentially dead (reading less than 8 volts after just a couple of cranking attempts) and this caused me to nearly get stranded just down the road because it was fouling the plugs in less than a mile to the point i had to stop and clean them. but i mannaged to get back home after several times of that.

now that i have the battery replaced i cant get it started again really. hangon... jumping ahead of myself...

right after i got the battery in i cleaned the plugs it would start up just fine on med to full choke but when i let off the choke it would die. i also noticed that if i gave it a little throttle it would start up just fine as well, but as soon as rolled it back to idle it would just die. so i thought i would adjust the "idle adjustment screw" (the one that just holds the throttle open a little) and took it for a ride. after about a quarter mile it started backfiring and loosing power. so i pulled over and it promptly died. after poking at the petcock and such it started back up and i turned it around and rode it home. in the driveway it ran for quite some time, so i turned it around again and took off back down the road, again after about a half mile it started to sputter to a stop and loosing power. after much more poking and prodding this time (took several minutes to start it back up this time) i started it up and drove around the neighborhood. and returned to my driveway where it ran fine for a few more minutes while I examined the fuel filter and such to make sure it was infact getting fuel and i wasnt just running out of gas. then it promptly sputtered to a stop. i just chalked it up to "well i been meaning to clean the carbs"

now it's under my carport and i cant get it to start up again, i was going to run some seafoam through it but i cant get it to run long enough to get it through the system. tried for about 30 minutes to start it on saturday, started out getting backfires only, slowly got less of those and eventually it started on full choke, but very laboriously. sounded like not all cylinders were firing or something. but even on full choke it would only run for a few moments before dying again. after this i pulled the plugs and found that #1 &4 were very carbon-y blackish, #3 was practically dripping with blackened gas, and #2 was essetially untouched from when i put it in..

what is going on with my bike? it seems to be getting worse and worse. is this all indication that i just need to clean my carbs or is it something else? is there a way i can test the sparks at the plug caps to make sure that they are "big" enough? i want to get my charging system worked out but i need the bike to run to test it. or are there ways to test out the various parts of the charging system without it running (mainly the stator)?

sorry again for the long post.

P.S. i just got my kit of o-rings in the mail the other day. so i guess i can get started on that this weekend.

[TSCC]

Up & Running

A) When the Battery doesn't have proper voltage this will cause the bike to Misfire and Foul Plugs because it's not firing properly, and the unburned fuel is fouling the Plugs.

B) Clean the Fuel Valve.

C) Check the Fuel Cap Ventilation.

D) Check the Run/Stop Switch on the Handle Bars to see if this is allowing the Bike to cut out intermittently due to vibration/poor connection in the Switch

E) All these things can be checked before Removing the Carburetors for Cleaning.

F) Clean the Carburetors & inspect Intake Manifolds for Cracks and Inspect Vacuum leaks.

G) And much more, but those are some of the basics.

[Bones]

Sounds to me like you need to clean those carbs. There is probably some rust in the tank that made it to the carbs through the filter. (kinda like rust dust) I think I would deal with the carbs and the tank before working on the charging problem.

Your #2 sounds like there is no fuel through the jets. (mainly the pilot jet) That is where the "rust dust" hurts the most.

Hopes this helps.

Bones

[shadowfist]

A) yeah, checked this, even while cranking it wasnt going below 12 or so volts (i was super paranoid as the "new" battery it came with was not so new)
B)you mean the petcock right? which leads me to the question of how do you clean that badboy?
C) fuel cap ventalation probobly isnt an issue as i tipped the bike over the other day and fuel started to drip out the cap.
D) bike wont crank the starter if its off at all, and it seems to crank good and strong with no hickups.
E)roger, will check the petcock, what is it sposed to look like under normal operation as far as fuel flow through the filter? (clear one) sometimes when i go to start it it just has a bubble at the veeeeeery top that you can see if you tap it, but other times it is only 1/3 to half way up with fuel. is this a problem or normal?

[TSCC]

Fuel Valve/Fuel cock

Looks like this inside.

[blowerbike]

1. fully charge your battery.
2. install 8 dollars worth of brand new plugs.
3. try to start it as you normally would if there hadnt been any problems.
food for thought...
you can not clean gas flouled plugs..they will never be 100% NEVER.
oil fouled plugs can be cleaned and re-gapped and made near new.
dont over think what your doing, it will scramble your thought process and have you working on areas thats not causing your problem.
oh and voltage can drop below 12 when cranking your engine.

[Steve]

A) ... will check the petcock, what is it sposed to look like under normal operation as far as fuel flow through the filter? (clear one) ...

Aahhh, the dreaded "fuel filter".

Did you install that or did someone else? The only difference that makes is that if you installed it, you might at least know what was installed.
ALL FUEL FILTERS ARE NOT THE SAME. Did you get the idea that that is important? If you went to Auto Zone or Wal-Mart and got a fuel filter, take it off. Most automotive fuel filters are meant to be installed in cars, which have a pressurized fuel system. Our bikes only rely on gravity, so you need to get a filter designed for that. Happily, you don't have to go very far, maybe just to your nearest Auto Zone or Wal-Mart. But ... don't look in the automotive aisle, look in the lawn mower aisle. Most lawn mowers also use gravity-fed fuel systems, so they should work just fine.

.

[shadowfist]

1. fully charge your battery.
2. install 8 dollars worth of brand new plugs.
3. try to start it as you normally would if there hadnt been any problems.
food for thought...
you can not clean gas flouled plugs..they will never be 100% NEVER.
oil fouled plugs can be cleaned and re-gapped and made near new.
dont over think what your doing, it will scramble your thought process and have you working on areas thats not causing your problem.
oh and voltage can drop below 12 when cranking your engine.

yeah, i hear ya, seince i replaced my battery and know that i fouled my plugs i havent put brand new plugs in it. i really should grab some on my way home from work. (probably a fuel filter too just because i didnt put the one in it that is in it, and considering that when i got the bike the plugs were the wrong ones i shouldnt trust that the filter is the right one either)

[jbs80106]

right after i got the battery in i cleaned the plugs it would start up just fine on med to full choke but when i let off the choke it would die. i also noticed that if i gave it a little throttle it would start up just fine as well, but as soon as rolled it back to idle it would just die. so i thought i would adjust the "idle adjustment screw" (the one that just holds the throttle open a little) and took it for a ride. after about a quarter mile it started backfiring and loosing power. so i pulled over and it promptly died. after poking at the petcock and such it started back up and i turned it around and rode it home. in the driveway it ran for quite some time, so i turned it around again and took off back down the road, again after about a half mile it started to sputter to a stop and loosing power. after much more poking and prodding this time (took several minutes to start it back up this time) i started it up and drove around the neighborhood. and returned to my driveway where it ran fine for a few more minutes while I examined the fuel filter and such to make sure it was infact getting fuel and i wasnt just running out of gas. then it promptly sputtered to a stop. i just chalked it up to "well i been meaning to clean the carbs".

Sounds like a fuel delivery problem....

Also, have you checked your oil for gas? Once my bike sputtered and died on the side of the road. Turns out it was basically drowning in oil (too much oil input by the mechanic -- me!). If you have a fuel problem, just check that you don't have fuel in the oil....

If the battery is strong enough to crank the starter, put that worry out of your mind for now. Even without a working charging system, if the battery cranks the motor, and you're getting good spark at the motor, then you either have problem with fuel or air....to run you need: crank, spark, proper fuel/air mixture.

You should be able to feel the pipes warm up when it first starts running. Under extended cranking, my pipes get noticably warmer, let you know if all cylinders are running or not.


As an earlier poster stated, keep it simple and start eliminating the obvious first. Battery fully charged, check. Starter cranking strong when engaged, check. Spark good at plugs? Fuel getting into the carbs (too much or not enough?)....etc. The black oil/gas you mentioned on one of the plugs sounds like a clue to me.....

[mcloud]

Also,
properly clean your air filter.
Do not clean it in gas, as it will degrade in small particles wich can get sucked in and plug an orifice.
Make sure it's totally dry.
Apply air filter oil only.

Check air pressure in your tires..... No joke here. Was so happy when mine fired, I went for a test ride only to realize I had a slow leak in the front...