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Ethenol in the gas
When I was filling up the car today I saw a warning sticker on the pump about using the gas with up to 10% Ethenol in vehicles from the mid 1980's and older. Anybody have any problems because of the ethenol? My idle has been a little high when warm on the GS and I wonder if that could be the cause.1981 GS 450L
2007 Kawasaki Vulcan 900 Custom
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Clumzi
I've been under the impression that pretty much everything has been E10 for a while. I know in most of the places I've lived it has been. I've got no answers but I'm curious too. I have heard it causes marginal drops in fuel efficiency, but that's all. nick
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heathen
most large cities now require e10. we have had it here for a long time. only differance is on carberated engines. some won't change, but i have had to lower the idle on my bike because the e10 will make it run a little lean. you shouldn't have to rejet though. your gas milage will be changed a little but probably won't notice may be a mile or two. i run my 66 fairlane on it and haven't seen any problems other than idle. haven't heard of anyone having problems with running it.
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physics-teacher
Tipsy engines?
There are stations in my area that post "NO ETHANOL" on their signs. My tests are not exhaustive, but I believe ethanol is costing me about 10% on my gas mileage. I drop from around 49 to 45 with the alcohol added. I would think this should happen.....ethanol has less energy per liter compared to gasoline. Ethanol stations in my area are usually the cheapest posted price. Pay less, get less seems to be my experience so far.
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doctorgonzo
Originally posted by physics-teacher View PostThere are stations in my area that post "NO ETHANOL" on their signs. My tests are not exhaustive, but I believe ethanol is costing me about 10% on my gas mileage. I drop from around 49 to 45 with the alcohol added. I would think this should happen.....ethanol has less energy per liter compared to gasoline. Ethanol stations in my area are usually the cheapest posted price. Pay less, get less seems to be my experience so far.
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A 10 percent ethanol-blended gasoline [E-10] contains only 97 percent of the energy of pure gasoline, this is partially compensated for by the improved combustion efficiency of the ethanol-gasoline blend that the added ethanol provides. Overall, use of E-10 increases fuel consumption by an average of 2 percent compared with pure gasoline. Probably not enough to notice any change in performance, but less is less.
Ethanol makes a great solvent for gaskets, fuel lines and O-rings that aren't designed for it. I don't know if mine are or not, but I'd rather it doesn't sit there and slowly eat them away. Ethanol blended fuel breaks down faster than pure gasoline as well. Due to it's tendency to absorb water (from the air, not just water already in the gas) blended fuel undergoes a phase change if let to sit too long. Result: your 87 octane gas ends up about 84 octane, which much less than ideal. Of course if you running a blended 92 octane, you end up with 88 octane and your still okay.
Personally, I avoid it where I can, especially on the bikes.
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lordcannon88
Originally posted by dardoonk View PostA 10 percent ethanol-blended gasoline [E-10] contains only 97 percent of the energy of pure gasoline, this is partially compensated for by the improved combustion efficiency of the ethanol-gasoline blend that the added ethanol provides. Overall, use of E-10 increases fuel consumption by an average of 2 percent compared with pure gasoline. Probably not enough to notice any change in performance, but less is less.
Ethanol makes a great solvent for gaskets, fuel lines and O-rings that aren't designed for it. I don't know if mine are or not, but I'd rather it doesn't sit there and slowly eat them away. Ethanol blended fuel breaks down faster than pure gasoline as well. Due to it's tendency to absorb water (from the air, not just water already in the gas) blended fuel undergoes a phase change if let to sit too long. Result: your 87 octane gas ends up about 84 octane, which much less than ideal. Of course if you running a blended 92 octane, you end up with 88 octane and your still okay.
Personally, I avoid it where I can, especially on the bikes.
I am writing an essay currently on ethanol vs. pure gasoline. I will try to be brief. ethanol burns cleaner than gas but has less energy per unit, approx. 76000 BTUs. Gasoline has 126000 BTUs. Ethanol also has a higher surface tension than gas which, when mixed with gas, causes the mixture to not mix with air as efficiently as pure gas. this causes an inefficient mixture which causes an inefficient combustion which causes a decrease in gas mileage. I get about 5 mpg less with ethanol than gas. Now for the brave scientific minded there is something better you can add to gas: acetone. Acetone only has 93000 BTUs per gallon, but when mixed with gasoline in extremely small amounts (1.5 oz per 10 gallons in my car) it increases gas mileage 3 - 5 mpg. it does this by almost completely breaking the surface tension of gasoline and allowing it to emulsify more efficiently.
the jury is still out on the damage acetone does or doesnt do to cars, but in such small amounts i dont see how anything could be hurt. ive been using it 8 months with no result other than improved mileage. as a bonus it burns cleaner and cleaned out the dirty EGR system on my car and turned off the check engine light. lol
i have sources for this info if anyone wants them. it is late and I am tired. im not sure how coherant this is.
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albi
Hi,
I've been using e10 for a while with no noticable difference in performance. The only side effect i've noticed is very slight decrease in fuel economy. This is more than compensated for by the slightly cheaper price (at least it's cheaper here in Queensland, Australia)
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Suzuki_Don
My daughter used the E10 in her 2.6 litre Sigma with carb (not injected). Engine would not run. Stalled all the time. Even with idle speed turned up it ran extremely rough. Dissolved rubber parts in carburation system. It took two tank fulls of standard unleaded fuel to get the engine running OK again. Personally I would not use it in any vehicle with rubber components. Fuel injected vehicles OK, as they have all metal fuel lines, etc.
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Old Colt
A bunch of these comments do not touch on the negative aspects of E10 in vehicles that are not driven routinely.
The big issues are with vehicles that sit most of the time and do not have evaporative emissions systems, the charcoal canister. This would include our bikes, boats, light aircraft, lawn mowers & tractors, generator sets etc.
A couple of points.
The Ethanol does not mix with the gasoline, it is blended at the distribution center as it goes into the truck hauling it to the gas station. If the fuel sits, the Ethanol settles out leaving a stratification of the high oxygen rich alcohol on the bottom of the tank and low octane gas above it.
The Ethanol has a very low vapor pressure and over a two week period will start to evaporate out of the tank. In a month or so it is gone into the atmosphere.
The Ethanol absorbs moisture very efficiently. Guess what happens over time, The moisture is left on the bottom of the tank is a very oxygen rich blend.
The Ethanol brakes down polyester resin used in the the manufacture of older gas tanks in boats and motorcycles.
So, when this wonderful fuel that is forced upon us sits for more than two weeks in a tank or can it settles out to an oxygen rich water laden jelly on the bottom and low grade gasoline above it. If it does not rot through your tank it will pass through the filters to the carb and settle its jelly there. And yes it passes right through all filters.
We have one gas station here that gets straight gas, I do see and measure a difference between it and E10. The E10 causes major driving problems in my older cars, I put in drygas every time ig go for a drive. That alone has its issues but the jelly formation in the carbs is a problem.
In Vermont we have not had E10 for very long but over the past year I myself now keep my fuel in 5 gallon cans and let the jelly form and settle out, then pour off the usable fuel for use in the mower, chainsaws etc.
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mike-s
Originally posted by albiI've been using e10 for a while with no noticable difference in performance. The only side effect i've noticed is very slight decrease in fuel economy. This is more than compensated for by the slightly cheaper price (at least it's cheaper here in Queensland, Australia)Last edited by Guest; 12-30-2008, 08:57 AM.
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NetBSD
ill chime in on this, around my parts we have turkey hill (uses ethenol in the gas) and other stations that advertise they use no ethenol. well i did a simple little test of running a full tank of gas with ethenol in it and a full tank of regular gas without ethenol, the mileage was different by a little, my gs450L with 7k original miles got 30 more miles outof the tank of gas with no ethenol, ofcourse give or take a little bit for driving habbits but there is a drop in mileage but i have not noticed a performance gain or drop with my gs, now my truck (1988 Bronco II 2.9L EFI with a 5 speed and 103k on the clock) seems to dislike ethenol, hard to get it started up int he cold weather and it hesitates till its warmd up. only does this on ethenol, and i have no clue on the mileage but it gets terrible mileage anyway due to the bigger tires and a heavy right foot
thats all i can say about ethenol, i never got into the tech stuff with it
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Killer2600
Originally posted by lordcannon88 View PostI am writing an essay currently on ethanol vs. pure gasoline. I will try to be brief. ethanol burns cleaner than gas but has less energy per unit, approx. 76000 BTUs. Gasoline has 126000 BTUs. Ethanol also has a higher surface tension than gas which, when mixed with gas, causes the mixture to not mix with air as efficiently as pure gas. this causes an inefficient mixture which causes an inefficient combustion which causes a decrease in gas mileage. I get about 5 mpg less with ethanol than gas. Now for the brave scientific minded there is something better you can add to gas: acetone. Acetone only has 93000 BTUs per gallon, but when mixed with gasoline in extremely small amounts (1.5 oz per 10 gallons in my car) it increases gas mileage 3 - 5 mpg. it does this by almost completely breaking the surface tension of gasoline and allowing it to emulsify more efficiently.
the jury is still out on the damage acetone does or doesnt do to cars, but in such small amounts i dont see how anything could be hurt. ive been using it 8 months with no result other than improved mileage. as a bonus it burns cleaner and cleaned out the dirty EGR system on my car and turned off the check engine light. lol
i have sources for this info if anyone wants them. it is late and I am tired. im not sure how coherant this is.
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IOWA450T
Originally posted by Old Colt View PostA bunch of these comments do not touch on the negative aspects of E10 in vehicles that are not driven routinely.
The big issues are with vehicles that sit most of the time and do not have evaporative emissions systems, the charcoal canister. This would include our bikes, boats, light aircraft, lawn mowers & tractors, generator sets etc.
A couple of points.
The Ethanol does not mix with the gasoline, it is blended at the distribution center as it goes into the truck hauling it to the gas station. If the fuel sits, the Ethanol settles out leaving a stratification of the high oxygen rich alcohol on the bottom of the tank and low octane gas above it.
The Ethanol has a very low vapor pressure and over a two week period will start to evaporate out of the tank. In a month or so it is gone into the atmosphere.
The Ethanol absorbs moisture very efficiently. Guess what happens over time, The moisture is left on the bottom of the tank is a very oxygen rich blend.
The Ethanol brakes down polyester resin used in the the manufacture of older gas tanks in boats and motorcycles.
So, when this wonderful fuel that is forced upon us sits for more than two weeks in a tank or can it settles out to an oxygen rich water laden jelly on the bottom and low grade gasoline above it. If it does not rot through your tank it will pass through the filters to the carb and settle its jelly there. And yes it passes right through all filters.
We have one gas station here that gets straight gas, I do see and measure a difference between it and E10. The E10 causes major driving problems in my older cars, I put in drygas every time ig go for a drive. That alone has its issues but the jelly formation in the carbs is a problem.
In Vermont we have not had E10 for very long but over the past year I myself now keep my fuel in 5 gallon cans and let the jelly form and settle out, then pour off the usable fuel for use in the mower, chainsaws etc.
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