Removed Cylinder Liners Using BBQ

[Gib]

Just a thought. Heat the cylinders up to get the liner out, but instead of heating them up again to get the new ones in, it might be easier to just keep the new liners in the freezer for a bit.

[rapidray]

You will still have to heat the block to get the sleeves in. Freezing the sleeves, by itself, is NOT enough. Just so you know. Ray.

[duaneage]

Dry ice could be used to shrink the liners and then drop em in. Valve seats can be done the same way.

[rapidray]

Liquid NITROGEN would work also but who has either? Ray.

[chef1366]

Dry ice is eazy to find.

[rapidray]

My point is that there is no need to spend money on more stuff that is NOT needed to finish the job when he can just heat the block & set the sleeves in! Ray.

[trippivot]

don't forget to put weights on the new installed sleeves to hold them in place when it cools.

I want a 10w-40 burger!

[first timer]

anyone want to play around with glooping up some thermal paste like they use for computer heat sinks on the block walls then installing the sleeves?

if it is so easy to install sleeves and remove them, why not try to get a better heat transmission between the two materials with some thermal paste?

[82Shafty]

anyone want to play around with glooping up some thermal paste like they use for computer heat sinks on the block walls then installing the sleeves?

if it is so easy to install sleeves and remove them, why not try to get a better heat transmission between the two materials with some thermal paste?

Once the units cool together, it becomes an interference fit which allows the transfer of heat.

[first timer]

Once the units cool together, it becomes an interference fit which allows the transfer of heat.

technically yes, but there will still be microscopic gaps and voids, thermal paste would help fill those in and provide 100% heat bridging.

[Planecrazy]

technically yes, but there will still be microscopic gaps and voids, thermal paste would help fill those in and provide 100% heat bridging.

That's an awful lot of computer thermal paste packets you'll be ripping open, Ryan!

Regards,

[first timer]

I am just throwing it out there for converstion. It's one of those it's so simple why not try it? what could it hurt?

[Planecrazy]

I am just throwing it out there for converstion. It's one of those it's so simple why not try it? what could it hurt?

Incidentally, I highly doubt that there'd be a measurable improvement. Unlike a computer there is a fairly wide variance for safe heat dissipation.

I suppose one way to find out if your "great idea" has merit would be to see if anybody is using the stuff on racing engines for that extra "edge." Chances are they've investigated the possibilities and decided "yea" or "neigh" on the idea already.

Regards,

[82Shafty]

This is a neat read about aluminum bores.

Silicon particles measured in four millionths of an inch is crazy stuff.

.000004"

http://www.sunnen.com/NewsDetails.aspx?NewsID=11

First timer, I would wonder how well your computer paste could hold up under 2500 degree combustion temperatures?

"Oil and grease should not be used to insert the liners since they tend to cake and hinder the dissipation of heat. Special lubricants such as molybdenum disulphide should be used instead."

http://mahleclevite.com/p_heavyduty_engineparts.asp

More cool stuff:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Darton-Dry-Cylinder-Sleeves-Honda-H22-H23-With-Flange_W0QQitemZ350141029831QQcmdZViewItemQQimsxZ20081216?IMSfp=TL0812161110009r31519

Dry sleeves are named so because the sleeve body is not exposed to any cooling liquid within the block and is always installed in a block with an interference fit.

The usual interference value depends on the application and method of install. Darton recommends .001 - .002 interference on like material, i.e. iron sleeves in an iron block. When dissimilar materials are involved such as iron sleeves in aluminum blocks, and interference of as much as .003 can be used however, differential temperatures must be used for installation and the block must be perfectly prepared both dimensionally and surface finish. As a rule of thumb the following may be used as a guide for temperature differential for each instance and fit:

BLOCK SLEEVE INTERFERENCE TEMP DIFFERENTIALIron Iron .001 - .003 50° F.003 - .005 100° F.005 - Above 250° FIron Steel .001 - .003 100° F.003 - .005 200° F.005 - Above Not RecommendedIron Aluminum - Not RecommendedAluminum Aluminum .001 - .003 100° F.003 - .005 200° F.005 - Above Not RecommendedAluminum Cast Iron .001 - .003. 100° F.003 - .005 Not RecommendedAluminum Alloy Iron .001 - .003 100° F.003 - .005 200° F.005 - Above Not RecommendedAluminum Ductile Iron .001 - .003 100° F.000 - .002 100° F.002 - .003 150° F

Interference values differ based on the types materials and the types of sleeves. Flanged sleeves are typically installed with less interference and normally provide better performance in high horsepower applications because the upper deck of the flange acts as a seal to combustion chamber pressure when held in compression against the gasket and head. On most high performance applications the deck is surfaced and the flange counter bore is .002 - .003 less than flange thickness providing for an extra margin of cylinder/gasket compression and seal.
Straight wall or tubular sleeves are typically installed with more interference with a slight protrusion above the deck and then the block is decked smooth. Straight wall sleeves when installed in press with the foundation "ledge" at the bottom of the bore are the least desirable sleeves in a performance application. The integrity of straight wall sleeves is totally dependent of press, step and coefficient of expansion. The coefficient of expansion vertically in a block differs, and in combination with piston ring drag, minor dimensional differences can occur top to bottom which may affect cylinder sealing.
An aide to sleeve installation and heat transfer can be accomplished with adhesives. There are some products on the market which promote sleeve installation with clearance and proprietary adhesive which is swabbed on with an applicator. In our experience no chemical will form a continuing bond in clearance for security and heat transfer. Metal deformation with heat and cold is an elastic experience with varying degrees of predictability depending on material specifications. When an adhesive is called for Darton specifies "Loctite" and follows their guidelines for application and procedures.
Heat transfer is sometimes misunderstood. Certain marriages of material, chemicals and usage promote heat transfer and other circumstance reject heat. As a for instance, pistons routinely are coated especially on the domes to reject heat to promote performance and prevent piston distortion. Heat is formed in more than one way in an engine. Forces of friction, compression and combustion all contribute to heat creation. Heat dissipation is through use of power, (exhaust and power stroke), conductivity of lubrication materials, and absorption throughout metal components. Most aluminums will not tolerate high temperatures for any length of time. The combustion and cylinder scavenging process so rapidly process air mass that heat on pistons, heads and valves is resident for short periods of time. When this cycle breaks down such as detonation or lean mixtures we have what is called meltdown.
Cylinder's walls by contrast must reside in a static state of high heat all the time. For this reason heat absorption and material resiliency are crucial to the heat transfer process without meltdown or distortion. To promote heat transfer cylinder liners must be cast with the right chemistry, properly distributed throughout the sleeve wall with no occlusions, hard spots or grain structure concentrations. Darton's foundry uses special procedures to assure perfect chemical balance and unique furnace procedures to control how well the material homogenizes during pouring and centrifugal casting. When the material is properly compacted, heat transfer efficiency then becomes a function of sleeve/block fit, block structure, block cooling medium and water flow direction and speed. Dissimilar metallurgy, i.e. iron/aluminum exasperates cooling efficiency due to differences in thermal expansion rates. Typically aluminum engines made with iron sleeves are designed and cored differently than their cast iron cousins to compensate for thermal expansion variances.
Darton manufactures ductile iron sleeves for dry installation in aluminum blocks with special surface finishes and recommends that aluminum block cylinder walls be lightly honed with "Brush Research" bumble hones prior to sleeve installation. The combination of male and female surface preparation greatly enhances heat transfer when the sleeves are installed and fit properly.

Hope this helps.

[drhach]

I am just throwing it out there for conversation. It's one of those it's so simple why not try it? what could it hurt?

I think you're right that it would make a difference. I think that it would be so subtle that you definitely wouldn't feel it and most likely couldn't measure it. These engines are pretty effective at dissipating heat.