how do you take out the splines from the tire

[bwringer]

Guess I got some good news in this thread in that my splines are 81.

What color are they? Some '81 models had the earlier black splines, some had the later gold-ish soft splines.

If you buy a new spline unit from Suzuki, it's a silver color (and is durable).

[doctorgonzo]

What color are they? Some '81 models had the earlier black splines, some had the later gold-ish soft splines.

If you buy a new spline unit from Suzuki, it's a silver color (and is durable).

Son....
of....
a....
B?!@$@#

They are goldish.

I had them off 2500 miles ago when I got new tires and they didn't even get Moly. They guy helping me said "just use this marine grease". Luckily... only 2500 miles ago. They'll get better treatment before I put this jigsaw puzzle back together.

[bwringer]

When I was looking for Moly 60 and in addition to the Honda variety there are a couple of brands that have about that same Moly percentage sold as "assemby lube". Moroso makes one. I wondered if you could get dual use out of it.

I didn't know there was anything else out there with close to 60% moly. Innnnnteresting.

Perhaps another difference is moly particle size. The carrier grease used in spline lube is the sticky, waterproof stuff that's hard to dissolve, so that's probably also different than something you'd want to use in an engine.

FWIW, I use an engine assembly lube that does not contain moly. It's also a cool blood red color. Great stuff, very protective, and very sticky so it stays where you put it.

http://permatex.carshopinc.com/product_info.php/products_id/42302/81950

I'm on my second $10 tube of Honda spline paste in ten years of working on my bikes and many other shafties. My first tube is still about 1/3 full. It's not a major expense.

Same with assembly lube -- only about 1/10 of the $5 bottle I have has been used after building three engines with it. There's no point in economizing on these vital substances.

[Giblet]

I NOW grease my splines at every tire change or if I pull the rear wheel for any reason. Redman was present when the hub adapter failed on my first Texas hill country ride. It gave way as I attempted to ride up a small incline which resulted in my descending the incline quite rapidly, BACKWARDS!

And, since you asked, NO, I don't think the shop is responsible for checking that UNLESS, you specifically asked them to do it. Be glad they didn't charge you an exhorbatant price for doing something you didn't ask them to do. Trust me, its not the first lesson you'll learn on these old bikes.

[bwringer]

Agreed -- never, ever let a shop touch your GS. That way lies only madness and heartbreak.

However, in this particular case, the mechanic's actions had nothing at all to do with your spline failure.

ALL the gold colored 82-83 splines WILL fail. All of them. Proper treatment with 60% moly paste will delay the failure a bit, but nothing will prevent the failure.

I have on my shelf a spline unit from a friend's 1982 GS850GL with 24,000 miles on it. He bought the bike with 6,000 miles on it and the original tires, and we made sure we kept the spline unit properly lubed ever since.

At the 24,000 mile tire change, the teeth were literally paper-thin. It probably would have stripped on his way back home. Fortunately, I had a good spare '79 spline on hand because I knew this would happen.


The fault lies with Suzuki or their supplier back in the early '80s. These particular spline units are simply not hard enough. Suzuki discovered this sometime in the late '80s, updated the part and part number, and the same part has been used on many later shafties with no problems, even the far more powerful GSX1100G. If you order a new spline adapter, you'll get the updated part.

The same part was also used in the VS700-800 Intruders, the VX800, and is still in use to this day in the C50/S50 Boulevard cruisers. It's not hard to find a good used one, and it's only $90-$100 new. It was also used in the Cavalcade, but I'm not sure if they had updated the part by then.

[Redman]

....Redman was present when the hub adapter failed on my first Texas hill country ride. It gave way as I attempted to ride up a small incline which resulted in my descending the incline quite rapidly, BACKWARDS!
...

Was about 5 of us, standing around with puzzled looks on our faces. Huh? What? Huh? Clutch? Transmission?
Leon Focus Frenzy properly dignosed the situation from about a 100 feet away. In next few days we all learned alot. And now say same thing: Lube that hub every time rear wheel is off. And if you get a bike, inspect the hub, and have to remove hub to fully inspect it.

Oh, NES, to answer your question of how to remove the hub: Yes, like others have said, basicaly have to pull it or pry it out with two levers at same time.

[flyingace]

As to the mechanic, the answer is no - he wasn't obligated to grease the splines or even tell you about it. You hired him to change a tire and that's what he did.

It's up to you, the owner, to know the requirements of your motorcycle and tell the mechanic what needs to be done. How is one person to know the special needs and quirks of every motorcycle out there? If you didn't know the splines need grease, why is he expected to?

[Giblet]

Was about 5 of us, standing around with puzzled looks on our faces. Huh? What? Huh? Clutch? Transmission?
Leon Focus Frenzy properly dignosed the situation from about a 100 feet away. In next few days we all learned alot. And now say same thing: Lube that hub every time rear wheel is off. And if you get a bike, inspect the hub, and have to remove hub to fully inspect it.

I think someone put best about Leon when they said "handy as back scratcher to an itchin man". Almost the first thing I checked when I got my 81 GS1KG home. Leon actually called me a couple of days after I got home from that trip with that final diagnosis. I now have a spare adapter from an 80 GS1KG that I hold on to.

[doctorgonzo]

As to the mechanic, the answer is no - he wasn't obligated to grease the splines or even tell you about it. You hired him to change a tire and that's what he did.

It's up to you, the owner, to know the requirements of your motorcycle and tell the mechanic what needs to be done. How is one person to know the special needs and quirks of every motorcycle out there? If you didn't know the splines need grease, why is he expected to?

IMO that's the difference between a slack jawed wrench turner and a good mechanic. There are certainly more of the former and this guy was one.

[Giblet]

I think the old notion of "customer service" went out the window a long time ago. These days you're on your own unless you have something like this site & its members to help you out.

IMO that's the difference between a slack jawed wrench turner and a good mechanic. There are certainly more of the former and this guy was one.

[GavinJuice]

Just thought i would post some good read material everyone should read if they haven't. http://www.calsci.com/motorcycleinfo/Shaft.html

http://www.sandsmachine.com/grease_t.htm

[bwringer]

Good info. I've run across Krytox before, but it's horrifically expensive. McMaster-Carr lists it at $16.00 for half an ounce, or $39.34 for 2 ounces.

The Honda moly paste is easy to find (there are zillions of Honda motorcycle dealers) cheap ($8-$11 for a lifetime supply depending on the dealer's Bastard Markup Quotient) and effective.

Once you correct the metallurgical defect with the 82-83 splines by replacing them with the earlier or later splines, you can cross this particular failure off your list as long as you keep the splines lubed with the Honda moly paste.

As far as I know, I and the other high-mileage shaftie mavens have not seen or experienced a spline failure with the harder splines. There's a used '79 unit in my GS850 that I put in after the original failed at about 30,000 miles (20 miles from home and out of cell phone range... ). It's at 98,000 hard miles now, and was showing no wear aside from cosmetic surface scuffing during the last tire change at 96K. You can still see the faint machining marks in the teeth left over from the manufacturing process.


Again, this is a defect in the original part (insufficient hardening treatment, probably) that affects all 82-83 GS shafties and some '81 shafties. If you have a light gold-colored spline adapter in your rear wheel, it ABSOLUTELY WILL FAIL in the most inconvenient possible time and place no matter what it's lubricated with or how hard you wish upon a star. If you wish to inspect yours, you must clean all the grease and metal chips off a section and peer deep inside, which is very difficult while it is still mounted on the bike. This takes dedication, time, and lots of solvent, rags and q-tips -- if a mechanic tells you "yeah, it looked OK", that is not sufficient.

Replace it with an earlier model adapter (flat black in color) or a later model/new part (silver in color) at the earliest opportunity, lubricate it whenever the rear wheel is off with small amounts of Honda 60% moly paste, and ride happy.

[Flyboy]

I'm afraid I am with flying ace on this one, you can hardly blame the mechanic who changed the tire.
As he said, the mechanic cannot be expected to know every quirk about every motorcycle, and no, you cannot expect him to sit down do a few hours research on the bikes rear wheel, just in case there is something in there you should know about, where does it stop?
Hypohteticaly speaking, does he have to look see if there was a problem with the wheel bearing retainers, or the bearings themselves, how about the little hole in the rim that carries the tubeless valve, how about researching if certain year models had a casting flaw in the rims and the spokes break off, or if the seal/o-ring that seals the oil in the final drive around the driving spline needs a modification or replacment every so many miles, that the rear axle is prone to some malady that the G owners have found, and needs correcting with x y or z method?
What about the brake caliper while the wheel is off....etc etc, but you get the picture, you can't expect the guy to reserch for hours, just in case, the tire change job, only cost a few bucks anyway.

I have been riding my GS1000G since 81 and have clocked up more than 376 000 KM on it, have owned a few GS's including 850's G and L and 3 1000G's some of which I have built from the ground up, so consider myself pretty clued up on the nuances, strong and weak points of the shaft driven GS's, but even I am learing every day from the wealth of knowlage from the members of this great site.
In 376 000KM I have never had, or heard of this malady on the GS before reading this thread, guess mine must have the black or silver uprated spline ring in the rear wheel, but I will certainly be checking when the wheel comes off.

[49er]

I'm afraid I am with flying ace on this one, you can hardly blame the mechanic who changed the tire.
As he said, the mechanic cannot be expected to know every quirk about every motorcycle, and no, you cannot expect him to sit down do a few hours research on the bikes rear wheel, just in case there is something in there you should know about, where does it stop?
Hypohteticaly speaking, does he have to look see if there was a problem with the wheel bearing retainers, or the bearings themselves, how about the little hole in the rim that carries the tubeless valve, how about researching if certain year models had a casting flaw in the rims and the spokes break off, or if the seal/o-ring that seals the oil in the final drive around the driving spline needs a modification or replacment every so many miles, that the rear axle is prone to some malady that the G owners have found, and needs correcting with x y or z method?
What about the brake caliper while the wheel is off....etc etc, but you get the picture, you can't expect the guy to reserch for hours, just in case, the tire change job, only cost a few bucks anyway.

I have been riding my GS1000G since 81 and have clocked up more than 376 000 KM on it, have owned a few GS's including 850's G and L and 3 1000G's some of which I have built from the ground up, so consider myself pretty clued up on the nuances, strong and weak points of the shaft driven GS's, but even I am learing every day from the wealth of knowlage from the members of this great site.
In 376 000KM I have never had, or heard of this malady on the GS before reading this thread, guess mine must have the black or silver uprated spline ring in the rear wheel, but I will certainly be checking when the wheel comes off.

That's an impressive number of kms that you and your 1000G have clocked. How many engine rebuilds?

Are you telling us that your rear splines have survived 376,000 kms without a drop of Honda Moly on them.

I presume that you have done your own maintenance from new. How often have you lubed the splines? What type of grease have you used?
Your '81 should have the black splines from new.

I agree that under these circumstances, the last or previous mechanics aren't responsible for the spline failure. If the owner presents the bike as a novice to a mechanic, the mechanic should endeavour to cover all likely maintenace needs for the customer. But, unless the mechanic is working for a dealership for that specific model, he can't be expected to know all the potential pitfalls associated with the bike.

IMO, it's vital that you learn to do your own maintenence on these old bikes. You also have greater peace of mind when pushing them along knowing that your life really is in your own hands (excepting hughie's influence of course).

I have used a moly based lithium grease on my 850's splines since 02.

[DPage]

New Spline - Where On Fiche?

This is great info, I'd be high and dry sometime soon if you all hadn't brought this up. As luck would have it, I have an 82 850G with 32K miles, but have used Honda Moly 60 on the splines since I got it at 17K miles. However if these early 80's splines are toast by 50K miles, I'm going to need to replace it pretty soon. When I look on the parts fiche under Rear Wheel, there's something called a Joint, Hub Driven part 64680-45113 for about $100. Is that it, or is it under the Propeller Shaft section of the fiche?