how do you take out the splines from the tire

[NES07DEZ]

Hello guys, i finally found out what was wrong with my bike thanks to all you! and yes it was the splines. the theeth are all gone.
I am a little pist off i got the rear tire change on 10-25-08. the mechanic should of lubed the gear right!? I called him and he said he is not responsible, I think he his. what is you guys opinion?
well i need your help again who do you get the splines of the tire.
Is a 1982 gs 850 L
Thanks for the help.

[49er]

The last mechanic to fit your replacement rear tyre is not solely responsible, but shares the sline's failure with all the previous tyre fitters as well. These spines don't just fail over night. The wear is on going through a period of poor lubrication. Often sucessive tyre installers will manage to get some grit into the remaining grease and that helps to cut them out even quicker.

There are 3 retainer plates bolted to the hub that hold these splines in place. Under the retainer ring there are spigots that are shrouded by rubber shocks. These are there to take the harshness out of the drive system. You may need to pry the ring off these rubbers.

[doctorgonzo]

Good (and hopefully not too expensive lesson). I don't change my own tires, but I remove the wheel mysefl and take it in. Wipe out the old grease and regrease yourself before you reinstall.

[knotzilla]

I'ts not the responsilbilty of the mechanic to lube the splines but a good mechanic should have said something if he noticed the dry, worn spline. What I do when I get the rear tire changed is first varsol out all the grease and crap from the spline before I take it to the shop. That way no foreign objects from the shop can get into the splines and stick. I then inspect the splines of the rear unit and rear tire for objects and only grease the splines just before mounting the tire on the bike, Ted

[spyug]

I agree that the last guy, if he was a professional, should have spotted that and a) regreased and b) made you aware of it. Unfortunately, even the best can miss these things if they are over worked or under some pressure.

As our friend Dr G says, it is a hard lesson but a good one to ensure that you check things over yourself. Remember, you alone are responsible for your own safety and its critical when riding a bike. Don't trust anyone but yourself.

Bike maintenance is not difficult so get a manual. Get in the habit of checking your bike over regularly ( I was taught to check brakes tires ,chain and axle nuts each ride and oil levels once a week). Washing it and keeping it clean will give you a heads up when things start to go wrong. Fix things as soon as you can or small things can become big problems.

Again don't rely on others.

Ride safe.
Cheers,
Spyug

[slow_heavy_750]

Like the two above me said...you cant really blame the mechanic, but he should have noticed it and said something/greased it.

I been working at bike shops for 4-5 years, and any shaft drive bike I would do would always get cleaned and greased. I think ive only seen the splines fail once, and it was on an older wing

[bwringer]

Even with regular, loving application of the correct moly paste (it's not really grease), the 82-83 splines are weak and will fail eventually. It's just a question of when -- I've heard of them lasting anywhere from 24,000 miles to nearly 50,000 depending on care and the owner's riding habits.

To remove the old spline adapter, bend down the tabs on the retaining plates that are holding the bolt heads (I usually use a small punch or screwdriver and a few gentle hammer taps), then remove the six bolts and three retaining plates. You might need to use an impact driver (not an air tool -- the kind you hit with a hammer to twist and shock reluctant screws) with a large Phillips head bit. (You can't really remove them with a socket because they're too close to the edge of the spline adapter.)

Then use two large screwdrivers or pry bars at the same time to pry the spline adapter out evenly -- put the head of the screwdrivers in the slot for the retaining plates, then pry evenly on both. Pad the screwdrivers where the contact the wheel hub.

Installation is the reverse. Get some proper 60% moly paste from a Honda shop, and apply a small amount to each retaining plate where it wears against the body of the spline adapter and to the teeth of the spline.

Make sure you use blue Loctite on the screws. This is important! Bend the retainer tabs back up with a large pair of pliers or with a punch and hammer so they hold the bolt heads. (You may want to just order up new retaining plates if you're ordering a new spline adapter.)

Ride happy...

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. NES07DEZ,

Please visit my little BikeCliff website, download a manual for your bike (the 850 manual there is all-inclusive), and check out all of the maintenance resources there (mine and those of Mr. bwringer, Mr. Suzuki_Don, Mr. Roostabunny, Mr. Jethro, Mr. Matchless, Mr. MelodicMetalGod, Mr. oldryder, Mr. basic, Mr. catbed, Mr. 49er, Mr. tkent02, Mr. psyguy, Mr. duaneage, Mr. first timer, Mr. Yasser, Mr. SNott, Mr. Nessism, Mr. Griffin, Mr. Planecrazy, Mr. gravity tester, and Mr. Steve).

If you do your own maintenance, you can be sure it's done correctly. We'll help you. Please keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[doctorgonzo]

Hey bwringer, what do you think of the Moly Paste as an assemby lube. I think it's used for that a lot.

[Nessism]

Not a grease expert but I'd be concern about using spline grease inside my engine. Regular assembly lube is designed to disolve in oil, not sure if spline grease is formulated the same way.

[Planecrazy]

One thing the other guys haven't mentioned that I think is important is that it is VERY difficult to evaluate the splines without physically removing them from the hub. The reason for this is that the inner edge of the splines generally don't make contact with the splines in the final drive, and so they don't wear at all ... the result is that without actually removing them it's easy to be fooled into thinking they're just fine. Redman and I both have a set of splines lying around that look beautiful on the edge you'd see just removing the wheel, but just beyond that visible point they are stripped.

Unless you specifically ask the techs to remove the splines and inspect them (and are willing to pay the labor to do so) it is unreasonable to expect that tech to be able to tell if there is unusual wear and tear. Furthermore, you can't hold that tech or any other responsible for the failure.

Ok ... now the good news: If you keep an eye out on ebay you can generally find 1981 or older splines from an 1100G, 850G, or 1000G that will swap right in and last "forever" with regular lubrication. They are made of a harder material than the softer '82 and newer splines, AND they are generally inexpensive once you find them. You can also opt to buy a new replacement spline from the dealer. The old (good) ones are black in color, while the newer (softer) ones are bronze/gold in color.

The other good news is that the splines in the final drive are probably still in good shape because they are still made of the harder metal. Just be sure to thoroughly clean the metal filings from the shredded splines out before you regrease and reassemble the bike.

Regards,

[doctorgonzo]

Not a grease expert but I'd be concern about using spline grease inside my engine. Regular assembly lube is designed to disolve in oil, not sure if spline grease is formulated the same way.

When I was looking for Moly 60 and in addition to the Honda variety there are a couple of brands that have about that same Moly percentage sold as "assemby lube". Moroso makes one. I wondered if you could get dual use out of it.

[bwringer]

Hey bwringer, what do you think of the Moly Paste as an assemby lube. I think it's used for that a lot.

Assembly lube is a very different moly compound, with a much lower percentage of molybdenum.

The 60% moly paste for splines is actually pretty abrasive to soft metals like aluminum, and is never supposed to be used on moving parts. It would destroy bearings, seals, etc.

60% paste is The Right Stuff for preventing "fretting" wear between two harder metals (like steel spline teeth). The molybdenum particles take the load quite well and keep the steel teeth from contacting one another.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fretting_Wear

Conversely, moly assembly lube and moly grease do not contain enough molybdenum to be effective for preventing spline wear.

[doctorgonzo]

Guess I got some good news in this thread in that my splines are 81.

[doctorgonzo]

Ringer answered my question. What the hell did people do before the internet (I was there and I still don't know). NO WAY IN HELL I could have attempted the things I'm doing without all this advice and info.