GK Stereo advice wanted

[mike-s]

I saw those in the local car-shop junkmail for the first time the other day, looked alright too. I made a slight mistake and bought a budget cd player that can play cd's with mp3's dropped on them in iso9660/joliet format. The problem with it? it seems to crack a wobbly whenever you change cd's while it is on, the drive won't spin up and gives "error 1". I have to eject the current cd, turn the whole thing off, turn it back on and then put the new cd in, sometimes it takes 2-3 attempts to get it to read the new cd. But once it reads it the first time, i can turn it off and on and have it read the cd until i change it again. Quite annoying and why i use radil as preference #1, but have a rather eclectic compilation of music on the one cd that pretty much just lives in the head unit.

[Steve]

First, I have a Vetter Cyclesound setup that I've used for several years now with all new equipment. There is no issue whatsoever with how secure the modern "knobless" radio is in the Cyclesound,...
The problem with the Cyclesound housings is that they only let you use a 3" (or 3 1/2" - I can't remember, offhand) speaker, and those little speakers have difficulty overcoming the engine/road noise at speed, at least when one is wearing a helmet (which I always do). I've often thought about modifying the housing to allow a deeper 4" or 5" speaker to fit, ...

Steve, Thanks for the info on the "knobless" radio security. We just got one in another Cycle Sound unit along with a set of lowers for the Windjammer.

You want to see light at the end of your tunnel that's NOT an oncoming train?
The Cycle Sounds with the 3" speakers are the OLD units. The NEW units have 4" speakers.
Since it's already designed in I don't think there will be any handlebar clearance issues.

Not sure when they transitioned to the larger speakers, but I had one back in '79 on my KZ1300. The fairing on that bike was so big, I actually put 6x9 speakers on the inner panels (facing the steering stem) and used the Cycle Sound spekers as tweeters with my Sanyo bi-amped stereo. Back then, it was one butt-kicking stereo, with 8 watts per channel to the tweeters and 22 watts per channel to the woofers.

.

[Planecrazy]

Steve, Thanks for the info on the "knobless" radio security. We just got one in another Cycle Sound unit along with a set of lowers for the Windjammer.

You want to see light at the end of your tunnel that's NOT an oncoming train?
The Cycle Sounds with the 3" speakers are the OLD units. The NEW units have 4" speakers.
Since it's already designed in I don't think there will be any handlebar clearance issues.

Not sure when they transitioned to the larger speakers, but I had one back in '79 on my KZ1300. The fairing on that bike was so big, I actually put 6x9 speakers on the inner panels (facing the steering stem) and used the Cycle Sound spekers as tweeters with my Sanyo bi-amped stereo. Back then, it was one butt-kicking stereo, with 8 watts per channel to the tweeters and 22 watts per channel to the woofers.

.

That WAS one butt-kicking stereo, hehe!

EDIT 2/12: I corrected my previous post (and this one) to reflect the fact that I DO have four inch speakers ... all Vetter Cyclesounds came with four inchers - I just forgot what the size was in my original post and accidentally wrote "three inchers."

One thing I should have mentioned is that I modified the existing insert for a "knobbed" stereo to allow the new unit to come through, and the mounting "sleeve" that the head unit came with was pretty easy to install securely in the Cyclesound without being loose. Also, the only reason I thought there might be clearance issues on my unit is because I don't think I can simply widen the holes for 5" speakers. What I'll have to do instead is add a spacing ring that brings the new speakers out toward me, allowing them to sit properly and also allowing for a little more bass to be generated within the enclosure. It can certainly be done, but probably isn't worth the effort for me personally at this time.

Regards,

[Steve]

Another alternative is to look on eBay for one that has larger speakers. Once you see one, it's obvious which ones have them, so they're easy to spot.

.

[Gimpdiggity]

I am more than likely going to mount a CD player in my fairing...even if I can't use the CD playing functionality of it, the unit that I will use (Alpine) should probably have enough power that the 4" speakers will actually be able to be heard. The Alpine player I'm looking at puts out a max of 60 watts RMS to the speakers...so that's probably more like 45 watts per side in "real life."

It also has the a.i. system that allows you to use and tune an iPod from the head unit and to use and tune a satellite radio from the head unit.

So basically, even if the CDs aren't playable in the fairing, the Alpine CD player will give me more than enough options for music once it's in there...AND it will have a higher power output than most stereos, which will make the little 4" speakers actually work.

[Planecrazy]

UPDATE: I just realized that I mistakenly wrote that I have a cyclesound with three inch speakers ... I actually have four inchers and I'm pretty sure that Cyclesounds ALWAYS came with four inchers ... my bad!

I am more than likely going to mount a CD player in my fairing...even if I can't use the CD playing functionality of it, the unit that I will use (Alpine) should probably have enough power that the 4" speakers will actually be able to be heard. The Alpine player I'm looking at puts out a max of 60 watts RMS to the speakers...so that's probably more like 45 watts per side in "real life."

It also has the a.i. system that allows you to use and tune an iPod from the head unit and to use and tune a satellite radio from the head unit.

So basically, even if the CDs aren't playable in the fairing, the Alpine CD player will give me more than enough options for music once it's in there...AND it will have a higher power output than most stereos, which will make the little 4" speakers actually work.

I'm afraid your logic doesn't quite work here ... Power isn't the problem with my unit ... distortion at higher volume is, because the four inch speakers simply can't handle the volume necessary to overcome the road noise at speed without distorting. My stereo has more than enough power to provide the volume (as your Alpine also does), but the little speakers are just that ... little.

You MIGHT get better results with more expensive four inchers than what I have (I bought what I consider to be a mid-level pair of four inchers) and there's a chance that the Alpine will put out slightly cleaner sound at volume, but in the end I believe the small size of the speakers will ultimately prove to be the weak link in your system (as it is in mine). Simply going with larger speakers (like the five inchers I'd like to try to make fit someday) would make a world of difference, simply because they can handle the higher volume level without distorting as soon as the smaller speakers do.

Good luck with it, though, and

Regards,

[Gimpdiggity]

I'm afraid your logic doesn't quite work here ... Power isn't the problem with my unit ... distortion at higher volume is, because the four inch speakers simply can't handle the volume necessary to overcome the road noise at speed without distorting. My stereo has more than enough power to provide the volume (as your Alpine also does), but the little speakers are just that ... little.

You MIGHT get better results with more expensive four inchers than what I have (I bought what I consider to be a mid-level pair of four inchers) and there's a chance that the Alpine will put out slightly cleaner sound at volume, but in the end I believe the small size of the speakers will ultimately prove to be the weak link in your system (as it is in mine). Simply going with larger speakers (like the five inchers I'd like to try to make fit someday) would make a world of difference, simply because they can handle the higher volume level without distorting as soon as the smaller speakers do.

Good luck with it, though, and

Regards,

Unfortunately, and I don't mean this to be rude at all, but your logic is the logic that is flawed.

Power supply is of utmost importance when it comes to stereo equipment. Especially when you're talking about smaller speakers. Anything smaller than a six inch speaker is basically going to be useless for providing adequate bass response. So unless you can manage to fit 6.5 inch drivers into the space, bass response is going to be virtually indistinguishable between a 4 inch driver and a 5.25 inch driver. Not to mention, the quality of the plastic that is enclosing these drivers isn't going to be very good for providing adequate bass response anyways.

A typical pair of 4" drivers is going to provide roughly 26 inches of surface area. That surface area is what delivers bass. Remember, bass is nothing more than movement of air. Of course, larger diameter drivers move more air. A typical pair of 5.25" drivers is going to provide roughly 40 inches of surface area. To be quite honest with you, that extra 14" of square surface area is going to make absolutely no difference...especially with the non-acoustic enclosure that is the fairing's mounting spots. Now, when you get to the 6" drivers, you MAY be able to actually start tinkering to some extent with actual midrange bass response. At this size you are pushing nearly 60 inches of air...enough to actually start to tinker with some of the higher frequencies that are considered "lows," but still not enough to adequately provide any true bass response.

Now, where your logic is truly beginning to waiver is on the issue of power. MOST speakers will put out good sound at any volume provided that the power source is a good, clean power source. To get technical, what is the THD, or total harmonic distortion, and the RMS power rating of the head unit that you are using?? THD is basically a measurement of what kind of distortion you are going to get out of your speakers when you turn the volume up quite a bit. A deck with a lower THD will sound better at the same volume than a deck with a higher THD. In essence, that $750 Alpine head unit at, say, 90 db is going to sound cleaner than the $49 Walmart special will. Humans attribute clean sound to louder sound. When something sounds clean without much distortion, it will tend to sound louder.

Now, this is when the difference comes into play with a deck with more power. A deck with more power will produce cleaner sounds at louder volumes. Say you have two decks that both have a THD of .01 at 1khz. Those two decks have matching specs in the THD department. Now, say that one of those decks puts out an RMS power rating of 20 watts per channel. The other deck puts out an RMS power rating of 30 watts per channel. I won't do the actual math and figures, but let's just say that at 80db (the "loudness" of a typical vacuum cleaner) that the 20 watt deck is at it's "THD" threshold. Anything over that will cause distortion and bad sound. Go much higher, and it starts to sound REALLY bad. However, the 30 watt deck would still have room to go louder without hitting it's "THD" threshold. It's got 50% more power, so let's just say that it can get an extra 20db. That's only 25% more loudness with 50% more power. That extra 20db will put it at 100db. Doesn't really seem like a ton...but keep in mind that decibels increase exponentially. 100db gets you to a rating that is like being in the front row of an orchestra concert. That's quite a bit louder than a vacuum cleaner. All of that was achieved by having a head unit that has an RMS rating of 10 watts more per channel than the other deck. This, of course, is in no way an absolutely accurate example. It has just been used to show the difference in a REALLY quick way that's pretty easy to understand.

Also, keep in mind that MOST speakers can handle quite a bit more power than what they recommend...provided that the power being fed to the driver is a pure, clean, undistorted power. So, with that said, smaller speakers with a cleaner power source will dound better than larger speakers with a less clean power source.

Take my current car as an example. I have an Alpine CDA-98something or other. It's a few years old, but it's got one of the most powerful in-unit amplifiers that's ever been marketed. It's powerful enough to require an actual 12 gauge wire run directly from the battery to provide it with power, instead of the skinny power wire that's in the factory vehicle wiring harness. It also required a separate stand alone ground, instead of the factory ground. It is rated at 60 watts max power, and got reviewed with an RMS of about 36 watts per channel. In the rear of the vehicle I have some Polk DB 6.5 inch two way drivers. In the front of the vehicle, in the doors, I have two stock paper 5.25 inch two way drivers. They are stock because I have always been too lazy to pull the door panels off to replace them. At volume, the two different types of speakers are nearly indistinguisable. Anyone other than an absolute audiphile will not be able to tell any difference between the two different sizes, brands, or material makeup of the speakers. However, when I get the deck turned up loud enough to hit it's THD levels, that's when the speakers become "different" sounding. The Polks sound slightly cleaner than the stockers when the deck is passed it's THD levels. However, for spending nearly $300 on the Polks a good amount of years ago, it's really hard to justify the price compared to the stock ones when you hear them together like that.

So, in short, a deck with more power will produce cleaner power at a louder volume, thus limiting distortion. I would be willing to be that it's not your speakers that are actually distorting at that high volume so much as it is the head unit itself. Providing a head unit with a higher power rating will reduce the distortion which will make the speakers sound better. What it also does is allow you to turn the volume up more until you get to the level of distortion that you feel comfortable with. The higher powered deck will raise that level significantly...and as such you would be able to get by with the same speakers probably fairly well. For this same exact reason, an extrenal amplifier will almost ALWAYS sound better than a head unit...even if the two are rated at nearly the same power. For example, if a head unit puts out an RMS of 25 watts per channel, I woudl prefer to run an external four channel amp that puts out an RMS of 25 watts per channel. That external amp is going to provide cleaner power, allowing you to use more of those 25 watts before you run into distortion.

I worked in car audio for years. Sold stereos, installed stereos, competed in sound quality AND dB contests. I was one of the first people in the country to figure out how to run a video signal to an Alpine CVA-1000 in dash monitor (had to fabricate a plug and a switch system to do it). I ran an SQ setup in a Dodge Intrepid that had 16 speakers in it...including the subwoofers. Four in the dash. Four in the doors. Four in the rear deck. Two in the ceiling above the front seats. Two subs in the trunk. Before I did the SQ stuff, I was running 6 Soundstream SPL 12" subwoofers in the trunk of that same Intrepid. I had them bridged down running off of three Soundstream Class A 10.2 Rubicon amplifiers. Those amps ran about $2k each at the time I had them. Even after seven years a solid working 10.2 amp runs around $500 or so.

I've installed a stereo system of some kind in every vehicle that I've ever owned. Car audio is something that I don't even consider a hobby...it's more like a necessity to me.

Trust me...when it comes to car audio, more power is ALWAYS better than less power. It provides cleaner, louder sound with less distortion. That less distortion is the biggest thing...because it allows you to get more volume until you hit your accepted level of distortion. Am I saying that speakers never make a difference?? Not at all. But at the small sizes that will easily fit into the fairing, there won't be much of a discernable difference. The 4" driver will produce the same mids and highs as the 5.25" driver. Bass response is really something that will be lacking in this no matter what. There simply is no way to get "good" bass response out of ANYTHING smalelr than a 6.5" driver. And I believe that a 6.5" driver would be too large to fit in the fairing at all.

Regards!!

[Gimpdiggity]

Oh yah, I just wanted to add one last thing...

When I sold the junk, I always sold it to customers in this way:
1. Head unit.
2. Sub and amp.
3. Replace stock speakers.

That, to me, was the easiest way to get the best sound quality. An upgrade in the head unit department will INSTANTLY make a difference in the volume and sound quality...and it was a discernible difference that the customer could easily recognize. An upgrade in the sub and amp category will instantly make a difference in the sound quality and volume, by filling out the lows and allowing you to adjust the bass OUT of the small drivers to provide better volume to them with less distortion...this was another discernible difference that was instantly recognizable to the customer. I always sold replacement drivers last because many people couldn't tell any difference in sound between the upgraded aftermarket speakers and the stockers...basically, the discernible difference (if any) was much more difficult to recognize than with the other upgrades.

So, head unit is the most important aspect in this situation with these bikes...unless of course the speakers are physically damaged or worn...then it's a different story!!!

Cheers!!!

[Planecrazy]

No offense taken, and I appreciate your long response, but I've also worked in autosound over the years. While I don't disagree with the basic premise of what you've laid out, I still have doubts as to how much of a difference you expect to obtain in the stock four inch size using the Cyclesound housing.

Without getting into an unnecessary "back and forth" exchange, let me simply say that I hope in the end that you are right and I am wrong. I'll look forward to hearing about your results this season!

Regards,

[Planecrazy]

One more thing, Jeff (Gimpdiggity) ... Since you live in the area, I hope you'll join us for the Brown County Rally in May (and the Fennimore, WI rally in the fall). It'll be a chance for you to meet some of the midwest "regulars" and show off your audio results, which I look forward to hearing! I have to warn you though ... once you start going to our rallies you'll be hooked, hehe!!

Regards,

[bakalorz]

I don't mean to be rude either, but a couple of things.

Unfortunately, and I don't mean this to be rude at all, but your logic is the logic that is flawed.

Power supply is of utmost importance when it comes to stereo equipment. Especially when you're talking about smaller speakers. Anything smaller than a six inch speaker is basically going to be useless for providing adequate bass response. So unless you can manage to fit 6.5 inch drivers into the space, bass response is going to be virtually indistinguishable between a 4 inch driver and a 5.25 inch driver.

I strongly disagree. The 6.5s may only be capable of moderate bass, and the 5.25s may be even more feeble than that ... but going down even further to 4s, the bass from the 4s will be non-existent. If you want any base at all, stepping up to 5.25s is likely to be the best single thing you can do.

And there are real physical reasons that 4s can't handle as much power
at low frequencies as bigger speakers.

Not to mention, the quality of the plastic that is enclosing these drivers isn't going to be very good for providing adequate bass response anyways.

Absolutely true. This is actually one place you might be able to make a significant difference. By adding stiffness or mass or damping to the "enclosure" (and completely sealing the enclosure behind the speaker if it isn't) you can let your speakers be the best they can, rather than having already marginal speakers loose the rest of their capability.

A typical pair of 4" drivers is going to provide roughly 26 inches of surface area. That surface area is what delivers bass. Remember, bass is nothing more than movement of air. Of course, larger diameter drivers move more air. A typical pair of 5.25" drivers is going to provide roughly 40 inches of surface area. To be quite honest with you, that extra 14" of square surface area is going to make absolutely no difference...especially with the non-acoustic enclosure that is the fairing's mounting spots. Now, when you get to the 6" drivers, you MAY be able to actually start tinkering to some extent with actual midrange bass response. At this size you are pushing nearly 60 inches of air...enough to actually start to tinker with some of the higher frequencies that are considered "lows," but still not enough to adequately provide any true bass response.

Now, where your logic is truly beginning to waiver is on the issue of power. MOST speakers will put out good sound at any volume provided that the power source is a good, clean power source. To get technical, what is the THD, or total harmonic distortion, and the RMS power rating of the head unit that you are using?? THD is basically a measurement of what kind of distortion you are going to get out of your speakers when you turn the volume up quite a bit. A deck with a lower THD will sound better at the same volume than a deck with a higher THD. In essence, that $750 Alpine head unit at, say, 90 db is going to sound cleaner than the $49 Walmart special will. Humans attribute clean sound to louder sound. When something sounds clean without much distortion, it will tend to sound louder.

Now, this is when the difference comes into play with a deck with more power. A deck with more power will produce cleaner sounds at louder volumes. Say you have two decks that both have a THD of .01 at 1khz. Those two decks have matching specs in the THD department. Now, say that one of those decks puts out an RMS power rating of 20 watts per channel. The other deck puts out an RMS power rating of 30 watts per channel. I won't do the actual math and figures, but let's just say that at 80db (the "loudness" of a typical vacuum cleaner) that the 20 watt deck is at it's "THD" threshold. Anything over that will cause distortion and bad sound. Go much higher, and it starts to sound REALLY bad. However, the 30 watt deck would still have room to go louder without hitting it's "THD" threshold. It's got 50% more power, so let's just say that it can get an extra 20db. That's only 25% more loudness with 50% more power. That extra 20db will put it at 100db. Doesn't really seem like a ton...but keep in mind that decibels increase exponentially. 100db gets you to a rating that is like being in the front row of an orchestra concert. That's quite a bit louder than a vacuum cleaner. All of that was achieved by having a head unit that has an RMS rating of 10 watts more per channel than the other deck. This, of course, is in no way an absolutely accurate example. It has just been used to show the difference in a REALLY quick way that's pretty easy to understand.

Also, keep in mind that MOST speakers can handle quite a bit more power than what they recommend...provided that the power being fed to the driver is a pure, clean, undistorted power. So, with that said, smaller speakers with a cleaner power source will sound better than larger speakers with a less clean power source.

The part about speakers handling more power as long as its clean is mostly right... but this ONLY holds true at mid and high frequencies. At low frequencies there is an additional limitation; the speakers excursion limit will be exceeded at even modest power. Adding more power will only make it worse.
This happens at lower power levels and/or higher frequencies with smaller speakers.
You just can't beat the laws of physics.

Take my current car as an example. I have an Alpine CDA-98something or other. It's a few years old, but it's got one of the most powerful in-unit amplifiers that's ever been marketed. It's powerful enough to require an actual 12 gauge wire run directly from the battery to provide it with power, instead of the skinny power wire that's in the factory vehicle wiring harness. It also required a separate stand alone ground, instead of the factory ground. It is rated at 60 watts max power, and got reviewed with an RMS of about 36 watts per channel. In the rear of the vehicle I have some Polk DB 6.5 inch two way drivers. In the front of the vehicle, in the doors, I have two stock paper 5.25 inch two way drivers. They are stock because I have always been too lazy to pull the door panels off to replace them. At volume, the two different types of speakers are nearly indistinguisable. Anyone other than an absolute audiphile will not be able to tell any difference between the two different sizes, brands, or material makeup of the speakers. However, when I get the deck turned up loud enough to hit it's THD levels, that's when the speakers become "different" sounding. The Polks sound slightly cleaner than the stockers when the deck is passed it's THD levels. However, for spending nearly $300 on the Polks a good amount of years ago, it's really hard to justify the price compared to the stock ones when you hear them together like that.

So, in short, a deck with more power will produce cleaner power at a louder volume, thus limiting distortion. I would be willing to be that it's not your speakers that are actually distorting at that high volume so much as it is the head unit itself. Providing a head unit with a higher power rating will reduce the distortion which will make the speakers sound better. What it also does is allow you to turn the volume up more until you get to the level of distortion that you feel comfortable with. The higher powered deck will raise that level significantly...and as such you would be able to get by with the same speakers probably fairly well. For this same exact reason, an extrenal amplifier will almost ALWAYS sound better than a head unit...even if the two are rated at nearly the same power. For example, if a head unit puts out an RMS of 25 watts per channel, I woudl prefer to run an external four channel amp that puts out an RMS of 25 watts per channel. That external amp is going to provide cleaner power, allowing you to use more of those 25 watts before you run into distortion.

I worked in car audio for years. Sold stereos, installed stereos, competed in sound quality AND dB contests. I was one of the first people in the country to figure out how to run a video signal to an Alpine CVA-1000 in dash monitor (had to fabricate a plug and a switch system to do it). I ran an SQ setup in a Dodge Intrepid that had 16 speakers in it...including the subwoofers. Four in the dash. Four in the doors. Four in the rear deck. Two in the ceiling above the front seats. Two subs in the trunk. Before I did the SQ stuff, I was running 6 Soundstream SPL 12" subwoofers in the trunk of that same Intrepid. I had them bridged down running off of three Soundstream Class A 10.2 Rubicon amplifiers. Those amps ran about $2k each at the time I had them. Even after seven years a solid working 10.2 amp runs around $500 or so.

I've installed a stereo system of some kind in every vehicle that I've ever owned. Car audio is something that I don't even consider a hobby...it's more like a necessity to me.

Trust me...when it comes to car audio, more power is ALWAYS better than less power. It provides cleaner, louder sound with less distortion. That less distortion is the biggest thing...because it allows you to get more volume until you hit your accepted level of distortion. Am I saying that speakers never make a difference?? Not at all. But at the small sizes that will easily fit into the fairing, there won't be much of a discernable difference. The 4" driver will produce the same mids and highs as the 5.25" driver. Bass response is really something that will be lacking in this no matter what. There simply is no way to get "good" bass response out of ANYTHING smalelr than a 6.5" driver. And I believe that a 6.5" driver would be too large to fit in the fairing at all.

Regards!!

[Gimpdiggity]

One more thing, Jeff (Gimpdiggity) ... Since you live in the area, I hope you'll join us for the Brown County Rally in May (and the Fennimore, WI rally in the fall). It'll be a chance for you to meet some of the midwest "regulars" and show off your audio results, which I look forward to hearing! I have to warn you though ... once you start going to our rallies you'll be hooked, hehe!!

Regards,

I would love to man...and if I have time, I definitely will try.

I got married this past October, and leave time from work is at a premium because I used it all up then for the wedding and the honeymoon. Then, we have ANOTHER wedding to go to this July that will be in Houston, so we'll be there for a week.

The one in the fall might be doable, though!!!

***EDIT***
Is that Brown County in Indiana, or Illinois?? I did a quick Google search and see there is one in each state!!!

[Gimpdiggity]

I strongly disagree. The 6.5s may only be capable of moderate bass, and the 5.25s may be even more feeble than that ... but going down even further to 4s, the bass from the 4s will be non-existent. If you want any base at all, stepping up to 5.25s is likely to be the best single thing you can do.

And there are real physical reasons that 4s can't handle as much power
at low frequencies as bigger speakers.

While this is correct, the big picture is that ANY speaker that has a tweeter built into it isn't truly designed to produce any kind of realistic bass responses. I mean, let's all face it, even an 8" subwoofer would easily outclass even the best set of 6.5" speakers when it comes to bass...so you have to look at it fairly realistically and realize that you're not really going to end up with much bass on a motorcycle no matter what you do.

Absolutely true. This is actually one place you might be able to make a significant difference. By adding stiffness or mass or damping to the "enclosure" (and completely sealing the enclosure behind the speaker if it isn't) you can let your speakers be the best they can, rather than having already marginal speakers loose the rest of their capability.

This might be an option to explore. Throwing some fiberglass down to reinforce the...ummm...plastic?? Whatever that the fairing is actually made out of. Then throwing some Dynomat (or cheaper alternative) all over the inside of the enclosure. Follow that up with some fiber in there to fill up the enclosure and you more than likely would get an increase in the response of the speaker. But I don't really know if it would end up being worth the trouble in the long run.

Like I said, on a bike, you aren't going to end up with a ton of bass no matter what you do. So all of that effort to make sure the enclosure is sealed correctly might end up netting you no realistic advantage to the sound quality.

The part about speakers handling more power as long as its clean is mostly right... but this ONLY holds true at mid and high frequencies. At low frequencies there is an additional limitation; the speakers excursion limit will be exceeded at even modest power. Adding more power will only make it worse.
This happens at lower power levels and/or higher frequencies with smaller speakers.
You just can't beat the laws of physics.

Right...but the point is, most well designed 4" speakers are going to have about the same realistic power handling as a well designed 6.5" speaker. And the 5.25" is going to be in the same line.

I'll use Polk Audio as an example, because I am a fan of their products. Their dB line of speakers is currently their "lower end" stuff, but in the past it was the high end. But a brand new set of Polk DB 4" drivers has the following power ratings:
4"--135w peak power, 45w continuous power
Now, the 5.25" version of the SAME SERIES of speakers, mysteriously, has the following power ratings:
5.25"--135w peak power, 45w continuous power

So those two speakers, despite the one being larger than the other, both have the exact same power specs.

I guess my point on the whole matter is basically that bass response is going to be "bad" from an actual audio point of view no matter what kind of speakers you can wedge into your fairing. Whether you stick with 4" drivers, widen the hole to accomodate 5.25" drivers, or go all out and stick some 6.5" drivers in there, you are still never going to be able to make any kind of actual bass that is worth discussing.

The bottom line is, in my opinion, the best way to get better sound out of the fairing setup is to go with a higher powered, higher quality head unit. Once you realize that bass isn't really an option with the way the machine is setup, you will wish that you had spent the money on a better head unit so that at the very least you can hear the vocals and guitar riffs and whatever in whichever music you favor.

Now, with that said...has anyone thought of trying to wedge an 8" sub into one of the hard sided cases that fit on the back of the bike??? I have two of them, and one is broken...but it would be PERFECT to seal up with fiberglass and try to shove a small amp and a small sub into it. I don't know if the bike's charging system could handle the load, however. Even that, to me, would be a waste of time and money because it's still not going to sound great...but it definitely would be interesting!!!!

[Gimpdiggity]

Alright guys...after all this discussing...

I'm curious about what you guys would do.

When replacing the stereo in the bike (the actual head unit itself) would you go with a marine ready unit that has the electronics coated so that moisture and water don't damage them??

Would you go with a standard receiver but get one of those water resistant front covers???

Would you go with a standard receiver and just use it with nothing else??


I have two options picked out right now...both Alpine units...one is the marine version of the radio and the other is the normal version of the same radio. The marine one is uglier...it's white...but it's got some nice reviews for it's electronics protection.

[mike-s]

I'm no expert, nor am i familiar with the housing in use here. But as its on a bike i would go for the marine head for the simple "what if" factor. "what if" the cover comes off and you don't notice it before you get a good dump of rain. "what if" the cover doesn't do its job while you parked your bike at the shops/work and come back to a radio that shorts out when you fire it up.