How to know if a valve adjustment is in order?

[Nessism]

Sounds like the valve cover is stuck because either the last person inside the engine used sealer on the gasket or the gasket is origional and petrified.

Removing a petrified gasket takes hours of chipping and scraping. Sounds like the mechanic is on the money in sending the job away...he's going to loose his butt on a flat rate valve adjustment job. Best to do it yourself anyway.

[robertbarr]

I asked my mechanic (20 yrs JAP bike experience) to do this along with some other things. He called today and said that the cylinder head is stuck/or seized and he can't get it to budge. He says that he has tried everything and he doesn't want it to crack or break if he tries using the hammer.

I'm sure he's talking about the cylinder head / cam cover. That doesn't sound too outrageous if the cover hasn't been off in ages.

I had a cam cover bolt on an 850 that was simply corrosion-welded to the cover itself, and it was necessary to actually break the cam cover to get it off. I tried every trick in the book. The bolt was then snapped off in the head. Ouch. I had to drill & tap a new hole for a new bolt.

Still, it was necessary. It was preferable (and far cheaper) than dropping a valve due to inadequate clearance, which will destroy the engine.

Your mechanic should know that, and be ready to do what's necessary. Sometimes it isn't as easy as just unbolting the cover and swapping shims.

[hikermikem]

If the valve cover is THAT stuck, it's a pretty good indicator that its never been off, meaning a valve check is certainly due.

When I got my 850GLZ last year it had 7K miles and had sat undisturbed for 15 years. I invented some colorful new "expressions" while coaxing that VERY STUBBORN valve cover off. It took quite a bit of effort to unstick it from the OEM gasket - and scrapping that old gasket off the sealing surfaces was a royal PITA. A rubber mallet is your best friend...

However, great satisfaction after the job was complete, and it's a piece of cake after the removal phase - YOU CAN DO THIS.

A few tips:

- When scrapping the old gasket material off, take care to not let the little pieces fall down into the engine. I stuffed some rags all around the inside to keep the 'em out..

- Clean the gasket mounting surfaces on both the engine & valve cover VERY WELL. Take your time, don't gouge them up & don't leave any lumps of old gasket material behind - it will cause leaks oil at those sites otherwise.

- Use a good quality valve cover gasket - I use OEM ones, others here like the Realgasket ones.

- If you go with the OEM gasket, apply a thin layer of grease on both sides of the gasket before installation, this will make it easy to remove next time.

- Consider replacing the 4 cam-end covers (rubber half-moons) at the same time, they are most likely brittle & deformed after 25+ yrs. Generic ones from Z1 Enterprises work very well & are cheap.

Good luck - ask all the questions you want right on this fourm - plenty of helpfull minds at work here.

Mike

[greg78gs750]

+ whatever on all of this good advice. if you have to ask how long it has been, they are due. and it really isnt that hard. and, fire that mechanic.

[Steve]

Also when you do get in there and have to adjust the clearances do some math and use the shims you already have by moving them around, it will save you some money.

Forget the math.

Just send me an e-mail with a request for my spreadsheet.

.

[lilbilly]

Thanks guys. With the help of a fellow GSer found here, I will hopefully be learning how to keep my first bike in order on my own. I should be riding it this weekend...at least back to my garage (it's cold still!!).

[drhermanstein]

These guys here are already proving to you how helpful they want to be. And you haven't even started yet! Trust them they will walk you through this. I've even seen where guys in nearby communities will come over and help hands-on!

Your fear stops you from success! Determine if the fear is realistic or not, THEN DIVE IN

[tomcat24551]

Drhermanstein posted such a nice end to this thread, I hate to mess it up by adding anything else, but maybe the following will help somebody.

When I tried to get the valve cover off my brand new '83 GS850 (bought in 86) for it's 600 mile initial valve adjustment, it was a no-go. I've never seen one stuck so tight! Honest-to-God it took me a solid week of solo work to get it off.

Here's what was finally successful:

After applying WD-40 and everything else I could think of many times, I looped a length of thin, but strong, rope under the 4 screw bosses (used to attach the ornamental caps) at the end of the valve cover. Then I looped the rope over a strong broom-handle, the end of which I propped up on the frame backbone to use as a fulcrum. Then, while constantly pulling up on the lever (broom handle), I tapped the valve cover till it finally began to move a little. Actually, the gasket just separated, the bottom half being stuck to the head and the top half to the valve cover!

Cleaning all the old gasket off was a hell of a problem, but that job is worth doing well.

CAUTION: You want to be very careful how hard you pry up on that lever AND how hard you hit the valve cover. Breaking it will be very expensive!

Hope this helps.

Tomcat

[reddirtrider]

Here's how I've removed old gaskets with sealer applied (yes, they can be very difficult to get off). Keep in mind this procedure requires a very slow hand and you must pay very close attention to what you are doing.

I use an old woodworking chisel that is about 1" wide. The trick is to put the sharp edge of the chisel in the middle of the gaskets edge and very gently tap the chisel into the gasket. Be very careful, and remove the chisel frequently to make sure you are centered on the gasket and are not moving into the aluminum. At some point you'll get far enoungh that the cover will rise a bit and the seal will be broken. After that point, it's easy.

This also seems to work best at the corners. Go very slow and monitor your progress.

I almost feel as if I shouldn't post this as it's a seat of your pants removal technique and if you don't do it exactly right you can screw up your cover. If done correctly, however, you can saver yourself a lot of time and frustration.

[Billy Ricks]

I can see where a good sharp chisel would work great. You have an amount of mass that has good familiar feel in the hand.

[reddirtrider]

I can see where a good sharp chisel would work great. You have an amount of mass that has good familiar feel in the hand.

Morning Billy. I read your post on the shock and I'll be using it to clean up Matt's later.

I forgot another caution that I should have included. MAKE DAMN SURE ALL THE BOLTS ARE OUT. This procedure puts a great deal of pressure on any cover to MOVE, bolts in or out.

[Billy Ricks]

Morning Billy. I read your post on the shock and I'll be using it to clean up Matt's later.

I forgot another caution that I should have included. MAKE DAMN SURE ALL THE BOLTS ARE OUT. This procedure puts a great deal of pressure on any cover to MOVE, bolts in or out.

Right back at you Steve.

The pinion gear is prone to wearing out. I think I remember turning mine around to get good teeth against the ring gear. I later bought a new one but it was hard to find. The pin on the cable at the shock tends to rust. Other than that it's a simple design. You can run a Q-tip with a little mild solvent in the hole with the rubber plug to clean things up to see the red dot. If you need any parts I have my shock still. I think all the little parts are in good shape.

[lilbilly]

Okay, some more help needed after picking up the bike and riding it home (besides the 35 degree weather).

I'm hearing a ticking sound that picks up with the acceleration?

Also, once the bike was warmed up well and had been run harder for a solid 25 or 30 minutes, it began to idle high around 2k rpms?

Seems to possibly be leaking oil, but not 100% sure on that, or where from either.

Now, I don't have the cap for the airfilter box and had to make shift one with a coffee can lid and some duct tape for now until I get a better one figured out.

Any help you guys can offer is greatly appreciated.

[lilbilly]

Okay, some more help needed after picking up the bike and riding it home (besides the 35 degree weather).

I'm hearing a ticking sound that picks up with the acceleration?

Also, once the bike was warmed up well and had been run harder for a solid 25 or 30 minutes, it began to idle high around 2k rpms?

Seems to possibly be leaking oil, but not 100% sure on that, or where from either.

Now, I don't have the cap for the airfilter box and had to make shift one with a coffee can lid and some duct tape for now until I get a better one figured out.

Any help you guys can offer is greatly appreciated.

I found that a main bolt was a turn or so loose, the bolt in the middle up front in between pipe 2 and 3. After tightening that down, I took it for a spin around the block and it seemed to not leak any more but I'll see tomorrow when I get it out longer.

But I could use some help with the ticking sound...any thoughts?

And also about it idling high - is that an issue with the airbox?

[hikermikem]

Well, congrats on getting it home in one piece - it's running & that's a very good sign...

The ticking noise appears to be a very common issue with these engines I believe, as far as I know it's not generally cause for alarm, kinda a quirk with the GS engine... Other more knowledgeable members can most likely explain it in detail.

The high idle is most likely caused by air leaks, and since you haven't a proper airbox cover, that's a likely culprit. These engines simply do not tolerate airleaks - all possible leak sources must be sealed in order for them to run correctly. The airbox must be sealed all around - take it apart and make sure it's sealed everywhere. Might as well put a new airfilter in while you're at it - use foam weather stripping (easily found at Ace hardware) to completey seal the airbox ends & around the top edge of the filter.

The carb boots are another air leak source, check them for cracks & make sure the clamps are tight. Some guys spray WD-40 around them while the engine is running to check for airleaks, but that doesn't always work. There are o-rings on the engine side of the carb intake boots that are probabally shot as well - another common site for air leaks.

The idle adjustment knob is a brass colored knob located in the bottom-middle of the carb rack on the airbox side - once the bike is warmed up, you can adjust the idle by turning the knob while it's running. It's a bit warm iback there, so be carefull not to burn yourself. Proper idle is around 1100 rpm I beleive.

The oil leaks are always a PITA to isolate. Essentially, clean the engine well, and then pay attention to where "fresh" oil appears to see where the problem area is. Some guys use foot powder spray after the engine cleaning to assist in identifing the leak areas.

Good luck & welcome to the GS family.

Mike