Avon roadrider cracking

[flyingace]

Brian you must have a steel trap for memories, it was I whom you had chastised for using such hillbilly lubricants like WD40 and dishwater soap for mounting tires. Yes I am still guilty of using soapy water to mount tires, but everytime I do it I think of RuGlyde and wish I had some to try. Necessity being mother of invention, I use what I have on hand. Maybe this time I will find some, where do you purchase said item?

Which brings me to some good news, contacted Tires Unlimited and they will refund tire. Of course I will need to pay shipping. They did offer to mount tire when they realized I was local ohio resident. I explained two hour drive is probably out of question for a tire so just ship it.

Is using hillbilly lubes KNOWN to crack tires, or is it just a possibility? I used dish detergent on my rear tire, and it's 3 years old - no cracks. But if there's a danger of harming the tire, I'll change my ways.

[rudy]

I only use any kind of lube when absolutely needed. Always try to get the tire on dry and clean. If it does need a little extra somethin-somethin, I use a VERY small bit of Dawn in a bowl of water. Same soap I use for wetsanding. I'm sure even just straight water would do alright too. I've never seen tire mounting lube up here, though I've never really searched for it either. Should look into it, but I've never had a problem yet.

[jpaul]

It's good to hear they're making good on the tire. I just checked my spreadsheet and my GS500 got a pair of tires in June or July of 2007. I replaced the rear last year with 14,000 miles on it. The front tire is still on with 18,890 miles on it. I think I'll measure the tread depth tonight so I can estimate when it will need replacing.

I've never used anything but soapy water as a tire lube. My dad never used anything else either, and he started changing tires on cars in the mid 1940's. I would have to see documented proof from an independent lab before I'd believe that a dilute solution of dish soap could have an adverse effect on vulcanized rubber. I would expect rainwater in the northeastern US (acid rain capital) to be more harmful.

[reddirtrider]

Count me in with the hillbilly crowd. I've been changing tires (mostly on dirt bikes) with a few drops of dishwashing liquid in a bowl of water for years. No problem and they go on much easier than dry, which I have to tip my hat to anyone who has the patience to do it that way.

When I was yiounger I tried to convince my mother soap was bad for me. She didn't buy it and over the years I've dropped that position. My wife is happy I did.

[paco13]

I wouldn't use WD40, It isn't friendly to rubber.
Soap though I have had no troubles with and most times don't need anything. I worked in an automotive tire shop years ago and the lube bottles hung on the side of machines were full of soapy water, thats all we used.
I use car wash soap/water now. Meguiars to be exact.
Yup, some of it inadvertantly gets on my tires when I wash my bike too, and they haven't melted off the bike.

Another auto-shop I worked in used this tire lube specific stuff we called peanut butter 'cause thats what it looked like, don't know its real name. I hated that stuff, made a mess.

And no I never contacted Pirelli. The tread was pretty well worn and figured wouldn't get much pro-rated any how and would probly have to pay ship, So said "screw it".

[bwringer]

Sounds like Tires Unlimited is doing the right thing. Good deal!

To answer a question, RuGlyde is available at any Napa auto parts. If your town has a traffic light, you likely have a Napa nearby.

Anyway, I honestly have no idea if hillbilly mounting lubes can damage rubber enough to cause cracking. I was just wondering about the possibility.

But what do you think is in RuGlyde? The bottle lists "potassium soap" whatever that is, and it feels and smells for all the world like a very mild, unscented soap -- it reminds me of diluted saddle soap.

Napa sells another tire mounting lube that is much like KY Jelly. Which is perfectly safe for certain much more delicate rubber products than tires...

So if I were in a pinch, I would use a mild solution of Murphy's or some other mild soap. Or maybe run to the drugstore for some KY. I would definitely not use dish detergent -- it's very alkaline and can corrode aluminum rims -- although a very weak solution of dish detergent usually won't hurt anything.

I would definitely stay away from petroleum products like WD-40, brake cleaner, and the like.

In this case, it sounds like perhaps the tires were defective, old, or maybe even spent too much time next to a big air compressor motor or something.

[jimcor]

Yep, RuGlyde and Murphy's Oil Soap are the same thing.

[themess]

Note: 20+ years ago, one of my jobs was to examine tires that fell apart, and determine if the factory screwed up, and if it did, exactly how it screwed up.

The tire is defective. A hard rubber compound wraps around the bead of the tire, Between the bead wire and the outer, hard rubber, lies another layer of rubber, not so hard, with reinforcing fabric in the middle. There are several possible causes for the circumferential cracks. One would be foreign material between the layers of rubber. Another would be that the fabric used was incorrect. A third cause could be that the fabric doesn't rise high enough into the sidewall area. I could come up with other possible defects.

To examine such a tire correctly, it would be dismounted, and a radial section cut out with a band saw. The section would include a severely cracked area, and an adjecent area that hasn't yet cracked. A second section would be removed with no cracking at all. The sections would be buffed on a cloth wheel until they are smooth. The dimensions and locations of each piece of rubber in the bead area (there could be four or five of them) would be carefully measured, to within 0.01" or better, and compared to the specification for the cured tire. (The factory and corporate tire development department cut apart tires pulled from regular production at random intervals, make these measurements and record them, so they know exactly what they should be. In addition, when the tire was developed and run on test wheels and test bikes, those tires were cut apart and analyzed in the same way.) If the measurements don't reveal an obvious defect, the section without a crack will be dissected, looking for foreign material at the depth of the crack. Rubber would be dissolved, and an IR spectrum compared to that from known good tires to detect differences. Other sections would be dissected, and the rubber tested for physical characteristics and chemical composition. The same would be done for the reinforcing fabrics in the area.

Your tire probably won't be subjected to such intense examination. That is usually not done unless a pattern of returned tires is found, or the tire fails causing a crash. However, tires from the same production dates will likely be examined, as well as other tires that share the same types of rubber or fabric components. If a pattern of defects is seen, a voluntary recall will likely be issued.

After you get your replacement tire, send photos of the defects, along with photos of the information on the tire, (including all of the identifications and markings, on both sides) to the Department of Transportation. They keep track of such things, and if they see any patterns, they will start an inquiry.

Tires Unlimited is doing the right thing. They will probably inform Avon, and Avon will probably buy the tire back from them.

[Nessism]

Check the photo below of corrosion inside the rim on my 850 - bike has 4000 miles on it. After seeing this I bought a jug of RyGyde.

[hp1000s]

Check the photo below of corrosion inside the rim on my 850 - bike has 4000 miles on it. After seeing this I bought a jug of RyGyde.

Interesting pic!

[bwringer]

Note: 20+ years ago, one of my jobs was to examine tires that fell apart, and determine if the factory screwed up, and if it did, exactly how it screwed up.

The tire is defective. A hard rubber compound wraps around the bead of the tire, Between the bead wire and the outer, hard rubber, lies another layer of rubber, not so hard, with reinforcing fabric in the middle. There are several possible causes for the circumferential cracks. One would be foreign material between the layers of rubber. Another....

WOW! Excellent info. I totally forgot we had an actual tire manufacturing expert in our midst.

We all learned something, the OP has another tire coming, and this one didn't fail in use. A happy ending all around.



To clarify: dish detergent can and does damage rims, especially aluminum rims, although the consensus is that it's harmless to tire rubber.

If you have to roll your own mounting lube, a weak solution of mild, plain soap (keep in mind that soap and detergent are very different things. Dish detergent is not soap) works fine and shouldn't hurt anything, unless you get too much water left inside the tire.

[mighty13d]

WOW! Excellent info. I totally forgot we had an actual tire manufacturing expert in our midst.

We all learned something, the OP has another tire coming, and this one didn't fail in use. A happy ending all around.



To clarify: dish detergent can and does damage rims, especially aluminum rims, although the consensus is that it's harmless to tire rubber.

If you have to roll your own mounting lube, a weak solution of mild, plain soap (keep in mind that soap and detergent are very different things. Dish detergent is not soap) works fine and shouldn't hurt anything, unless you get too much water left inside the tire.

I've always used dis detergent on rims, but then again, the tires that I usually replace are tractor tires and skidder tires so we haven't been terribly worried about the tire corroding or anything. I have some Murphys oil here so I'll be sure to put some of that in my spray bottle for mounting tires instead. If this will bubble over a leak like dish soap then it will be perfect and I've always just kept the bottle 95% water:5% soap or so.

[themess]

Check the photo below of corrosion inside the rim on my 850 - bike has 4000 miles on it. After seeing this I bought a jug of RyGyde.

Are you sure that this is corrosion and not a casting defect?

[waterman]

A happy ending all around?

Hey, good deal! I probably don't need to tell you this, but make sure you request that they send you a tire with a recent build-code this time!

Regards,

Unfortunately, this March has been one I would rather forget, it started with the flu wiping me out last week and this week bronchitis. So when I called Tires unlimited, I was nearly hoarse and limiting my words. In the short conversation, I didn't mention date codes as I figured tire was defective.

Today, after work, I notice a tire on my porch, looks nice, date code 5105. Oh well, I will give it a try. It is round and black and new. It will most likely be Sunday before I can get it mounted, extended family coming over to celebrate spring tomorrow.

I appreciate all of the comments and I will take pictures to send to DOT, thanks for tip. Likewise, I will try to find some RuGlyde, thanks Brian for replying. Ed thanks for reminding me to give the rim a thorough look over, not sure if I ever paid much attention to the valve stem area.

[mighty13d]

Unfortunately, this March has been one I would rather forget, it started with the flu wiping me out last week and this week bronchitis. So when I called Tires unlimited, I was nearly hoarse and limiting my words. In the short conversation, I didn't mention date codes as I figured tire was defective.

Today, after work, I notice a tire on my porch, looks nice, date code 5105. Oh well, I will give it a try. It is round and black and new. It will most likely be Sunday before I can get it mounted, extended family coming over to celebrate spring tomorrow.

I appreciate all of the comments and I will take pictures to send to DOT, thanks for tip. Likewise, I will try to find some RuGlyde, thanks Brian for replying. Ed thanks for reminding me to give the rim a thorough look over, not sure if I ever paid much attention to the valve stem area.

It was brought up that Murphy's Oil is the same stuff, so if you can't find RuGlyde in your first store or two, just go to the local supermarket and you'll find the Murphy's right in the cleaning supplies. It's almost guaranteed to be in your local supermaket.