Trying to find the source of an oil leak

[matt_gs450]

Hi All,

My 450T, which I've taken from dead to running great, has a small oil leak. After a ride, a few drops will hit the ground. I want to sell the bike, but I don't want to haggle with someone over this small leak. If I can fix it I'd like to. Or, I'd like to at least say I know what it is and what it takes to fix.

The oil is appearing from underneath the clutch cover. I think it is either coming from the clutch spindle or from behind the sprocket. Please take a look at the page I put up and let me know if you have any thoughts as to where the leak is:

http://www.stupidcatchphrase.com/moto/gs450t/oil-leak/index.html

Thanks a lot,
Matt

[SqDancerLynn1]

Clutch pushrod seal is the most likley suspect

[almarconi]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you can't fix it just disclose the leak to the buyer. Most reasonable people don't expect to buy a used bike, especially a 20+ year old one, without any maintenance issues.

[bwringer]

I wouldn't lose any sleep over it. If you can't fix it just disclose the leak to the buyer. Most reasonable people don't expect to buy a used bike, especially a 20+ year old one, without any maintenance issues.

There are a lot of unreasonable people who expect a frickin' warranty.

And even a reasonable person would knock quite a bit of cash off the price even though it's a relatively cheap and easy fix. If I were a buyer, I'd expect at least $100 to $200 off.

The clutch pushrod seal is maybe, what, four bucks? The output shaft seal is around $6. Both are quite easy to change.

Change 'em = profit $$. Or change the pushrod seal first because it's easier, and see where that gets you.



Also, WHERE ARE YOU???

Lots of GS-ers might be looking for a 450, you know. Perhaps a deal could be made.

[mighty13d]

Also, WHERE ARE YOU???

Lots of GS-ers might be looking for a 450, you know. Perhaps a deal could be made.

Also there might be some close GSers who are willing to come lend a hand in changing those seals for maybe just a burger or beer or something! Spend $20 on food and drinks and make a couple hundred in return and have the pleasure of knowing you fixed it yourself. Worth it to me!

[matt_gs450]

Thanks for your replies. After working the clutch about 25 times, it doesn't appear any oil is coming out that way. I'll take off the sprocket and see if there is any evidence of the leak coming from there. It's very likely the culprit because the chain is oily and throws oil around inside the clutch cover.

How much would a mechanic charge to replace the drive shaft seals? 4 hours maybe? I definitely want to do the work myself. I've done almost all the maintenance up until now and I'm getting obsessive about it If it's a job that requires special tools, I may have to appeal to someone in the area (San Mateo, CA) for assistance.

-Matt

[matt_gs450]

It took a while to find a 32 mm socket. I should know by now to start at Sears instead of going to Home Depot and Pep Boys first. Anyway, it was barely necessary. Once I unbent the washer, the sprocket nut was only hand tight.

From the picture it seems that the drive shaft is indeed the source of the oil.

Am I going to need to remove the engine to replace the seals? And will it require any special tools? I'll look through my service manual, but if anyone wants to share their insight it's appreciated.

Thanks,
Matt

[matt_gs450]

OK. Correct me if I'm wrong. To get to the drive shaft and replace the oil seals I need to:
* remove the engine
* turn it upside down
* remove the oil pan
* split the crankcase

And then I can lift out the drive shaft?

If this is true, I'll need a crankcase splitter and a case of beer for whoever helps me remove the engine. Hopefully that person also has a crankcase splitter because I don't really want to spend $170 for one. Then again, as it seems I'll own this bike forever, maybe it will come in handy again.

-Matt

[bob101770]

Your picture is of a counter shaft. So get youself a new counter shaft seal pull your old one out, put the new one in. Ten minutes and your done. A pick with a bend in it usually will get the seal out, but you can buy a seal puller also. then get a socket the same size as the metal edge on the new seal. push the seal in by hand a little bit, the put the socket over the metal part and gently tape it in with a hammer till it all the way in.

[bwringer]

Your picture is of a counter shaft. So get youself a new counter shaft seal pull your old one out, put the new one in. Ten minutes and your done. A pick with a bend in it usually will get the seal out, but you can buy a seal puller also. then get a socket the same size as the metal edge on the new seal. push the seal in by hand a little bit, the put the socket over the metal part and gently tape it in with a hammer till it all the way in.

Right. No engine splitting is needed here. Take a deep breath...

Remove that plate that retains and protects the seals, and you'll see a lot more. Nothing will come shooting out at you.

There are lots of different methods for removing a reluctant seal -- I usually screw in a short drywall screw just a little bit and pull on that with pliers. Careful -- the seal is fairly thin and you don't want to damage the bearing behind it.

I'd replace both the pushrod and output shaft seal if I were you, but I like to be thorough.

[matt_gs450]

Thanks bwringer. I was wondering if I could just remove that plate but was concerned about parts shooting out at me. The plate has tabs blocking the bolts. I assume I can bend those back with a chisel and proceed?

[jadesystem]

Hi Matt,

I can give you a hand on this. I'm in San Jose, and not far from you
on 101 north. We'll take a look at that suspect seal and get that
resolved for you.

Let me know as I'm off to San Francisco this afternoon. I could stop
by beforehand in the afternoon, or afterwards late in the evening.

Take care !!

[matt_gs450]

Hi jadesystem. Thanks for the offer. I'll try to access the seals on one of my parts bikes this evening. If I have trouble doing that I'll see if I can arrange some time to get your help once the replacement seals arrive.

-Matt

[matt_gs450]

I finally got around to removing the seals off my parts bike, to get an idea of how thin the seals are and what's behind them. I used bwringer's drywall screw approach to removal. I'm ready to remove the parts from my 450T without worrying about damaging anything.

For practice, I tried to re-insert the old seals on the parts bike. The seals got shredded a bit as I tapped them into place. I used two wooden dowels on opposite ends of the seal, tapping on both dowels simultaneously. I guess I need to use a different technique with the new seals. I'll try it like bob101770 suggests (socket same diameter as the seal). Would it be OK to use some motor oil to lubricate the seal before attempting to put it in?

Thanks again,
Matt

[briyenkieth]

silicone around the outside of the seal and a bit of grease on the inside diameter. Don't get to happy with the silicone. Also look at the gear indicator switch above the sprocket. That's where I found my leak.