OK, this cloud of smoke on startup has got to go, how do I fix it?

[donimo]

Hi all, I have mentioned it in a couple other posts, but I NEED to fix this. It isn't the "little puff or 2" of blue that all older vehicles like my chevy van does.

It is, you start it, its fine for about 5 seconds, then the blue smoke starts up out the left pipe and comes out like a 2 stroke left in a barn for 5 years and started up with 4x too much oil in the mix. It does this for a good 30sec-2min (depending on how long it sat) and sends a cloud across town that kills birds and burns a hole in the atmosphere, you may be able to see it on google earth if you look hard.

I guess its valve seals from what I have read, how do I fix that? is there a way to do it without gutting the top end off the bike? I don't have lots of free time right now, but I have to ride this bike every day and it is embarassing, I know functionally it doesnt matter, but functionally I don't have to wear pants when its warm out either...

[reddirtrider]

Yep, probably valve seals.

I've never done it, but I've heard of using compressed air to keep the valves from dropping down into the cylinders (must be at TDC), removing the springs and then installing new seals. This technique has the advantage of not removing the head. You'll also need to devise a method to keep the compressed air from turning over the motor.

If it doesn't work, you'll need to pop the head off to replace the seals. If it was me that's what I'd do anyway, but just thought I'd throw the above idea out there.

[Nessism]

Most likely valve stem seals but no guarantee. If it were my bike I'd pull the head and cylinder so everything can be properly inspected.

[donimo]

is taking the head off hard? I know its just a few bolts etc, but what about the cam chain? Is it super easy "with a few helpful tips" or could I get myself in a whole mess of trouble?

I already started a job (valve adjust) and had it backfire because the valve cover was a) glued on with some sort of space age silicone from the future and b) totally different than the gasket I bought for it, so a 1-2 hour job became a 2 week job due to me having only sporadic hours here and there to work on it...

1) so is it at least 80% chance its the seals?

2) is taking the head off and replacing the seals something I can do in 4 hours or so, including the odd snag?

3) I heard of a "rope" method into the spark plug hole? does this work?

[tkent02]

Have you tried riding it hard for quite a while?
Usually works for me.

[kamesama980]

More like 98% chance it's valve stem seals. Had that really bad on my old car. so bad they were in pieces before I touched them to change them.

I've done both air and rope to do them and I'd strongly recommend rope over air to hold the valves up... 1)fewer things to buy (compressed air to spark plug adapter, source of compressed air) 2) no worries about turning the engine over 3) not noisy 4) not iffy (not enough pressure or jar the valve to unseat it and now you have to get it out again). 3/8" white nylon braided rope works great. here's a pic using it on my old car: http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...DSC00035-1.jpg

summary: put the piston at BDC (before compression) stuff as much rope as you can in, then rotate the piston up then back down. then stuff more rope in, rotate it up, get the retainers off, replace the seals, etc

[TheCafeKid]

WITH THE MANUAL IN HAND, its a pretty straight forward process. You'll need a few specialty items, but those can actually be made for a fraction of the cost of buying them. If you dont plan on rebuilding motors on the regular, i would build them rather than buy them (hell id build em anyway cause im cheap) Valve spring compressor is essentially nothing more than a C-clamp and a piece of pipe large enough in diameter to depress the caps and you cut a window in it to work thru to remove the retainers. Again, with the manual this is not hard, albeing time consuming. I would chance to guess since you say it stopps smoking once warm that it is indeed the valve seals. Try parking it on the center stand a couple times and see if the smoke is less or the same. The OTHER possibility is a bad valve guide, and while not completely out of the realm, i would chance to guess that its likely NOT the case. My 1100G smoked a bit after sitting for a day or two on the side stand. I didnt really let it bother me much, and never pulled the head, as the amount of oil burned (less than a half quart every 1000 miles) was not alarming for an air cooled motor, and untill something required more attention inside, i figured its not hurting anything, so why bother.

[donimo]

WITH THE MANUAL IN HAND, its a pretty straight forward process. You'll need a few specialty items, but those can actually be made for a fraction of the cost of buying them. If you dont plan on rebuilding motors on the regular, i would build them rather than buy them (hell id build em anyway cause im cheap) Valve spring compressor is essentially nothing more than a C-clamp and a piece of pipe large enough in diameter to depress the caps and you cut a window in it to work thru to remove the retainers. Again, with the manual this is not hard, albeing time consuming. I would chance to guess since you say it stopps smoking once warm that it is indeed the valve seals. Try parking it on the center stand a couple times and see if the smoke is less or the same. The OTHER possibility is a bad valve guide, and while not completely out of the realm, i would chance to guess that its likely NOT the case. My 1100G smoked a bit after sitting for a day or two on the side stand. I didnt really let it bother me much, and never pulled the head, as the amount of oil burned (less than a half quart every 1000 miles) was not alarming for an air cooled motor, and untill something required more attention inside, i figured its not hurting anything, so why bother.

It's ALWAYS parked on its center stand at home, at work on its side stand, no appreciable difference. It smokes MORE afte being on the center stand, technically, but that is after it has been sitting for 12-14 hours overnight, whereas its only 8 hours at work on the sidestand...

It is WAY too much to ignore, even if it is a teaspoon every 50000000000km it is really embarassing to start up my bike and have 30 seconds of thick blue smoke pour out of my bike, the parking lot is in full view of the entire hospital I work at and I cant take the comments after only ONE day so far of riding to work ( you shouldnt ride that, you need to fix that blah blah)

I actually might have a spring compressor for a car around somewhere, maybe not hard to say, its been about 10 years since I remember seeing it...

[donimo]

More like 98% chance it's valve stem seals. Had that really bad on my old car. so bad they were in pieces before I touched them to change them.

I've done both air and rope to do them and I'd strongly recommend rope over air to hold the valves up... 1)fewer things to buy (compressed air to spark plug adapter, source of compressed air) 2) no worries about turning the engine over 3) not noisy 4) not iffy (not enough pressure or jar the valve to unseat it and now you have to get it out again). 3/8" white nylon braided rope works great. here's a pic using it on my old car: http://s29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...DSC00035-1.jpg

summary: put the piston at BDC (before compression) stuff as much rope as you can in, then rotate the piston up then back down. then stuff more rope in, rotate it up, get the retainers off, replace the seals, etc

I have a bunch of that rope already...but it may be dirty, hell its cheap, Ill go get some, first I need to find some seals, OEM? Aftermarket? bubblegum?

[mike_of_bbg]

Not sure about the TSCC engines, but say on my GS550, if you didn't pull the head, what would you put the c-clamp around when compressing the springs? It would have to be a mighty big c-clamp! When I've seen that trick done before (compressed air/rope), a compressor that clamped onto the springs themselves was used. Not possible on the 2V/cyl engines that I can see. Do the TSCCs not similarly have the valve springs completely surrounded in a hole?

[donimo]

Not sure about the TSCC engines, but say on my GS550, if you didn't pull the head, what would you put the c-clamp around when compressing the springs? It would have to be a mighty big c-clamp! When I've seen that trick done before (compressed air/rope), a compressor that clamped onto the springs themselves was used. Not possible on the 2V/cyl engines that I can see. Do the TSCCs not similarly have the valve springs completely surrounded in a hole?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/75842363@N00/731203915/

this is what mine looks like, its gonna be a beyotch to get a tool in there...

[donimo]

So, I want to order these seals ASAP, OEM or the ones from partsnmore.com good enough? any difference?

[donimo]

never mind, just ordered them from suzuki, 3 times as much ($7 each x8) but whatever, OEM is OEM.

[SqDancerLynn1]

Make sure to oil the seal & valve stem before you put it together. Don't use reg grease, Or at least use synthetic grease (rubber safe)

[duaneage]

Getting the springs off the valve is easy. With the valves immobilized by rope in the hole you can release the keepers with a large socket and a hammer. Tap down on the socket over the retainer and the keepers will pop off. They might fly far so put a rag over the socket and hit the socket through the rag,

Reassembly is the Hillary. You have to squeeze that spring farther than normal to get both keepers in ( make damn sure that they are in correctly) and then slowly release the spring. This is where some ingenuity comes it, for you are going to have to fabricate something that can deliver over 100 lbs to that spring carefully.

Most tools for on head removal need a lot of clearance around the spring, that doesn't work for the GS head. I would pull the head and do it with a tool designed for the job. I made one from a wood clamp that worked fine. You can replace the head gasket, and exhaust gaskets while cleaning the head up real good. On your twin this should be a pretty easy job, you are not pulling the cylinders after all.

Go for a head pull. Should be a weekend job at most.