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So Close...Just need fuel now

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    #1

    So Close...Just need fuel now

    Hey everyone,

    So I finally have spark, pulled and cleaned the carbs (as per the walkthrough from Bass Cliff's site)
    I searched around and couldn't find an actual carb dip, so I used spray carb cleaner and a biodegradable parts washer solution. The carbs were quite clean to begin with and I didn't find any obstructions or gunk inside them. I performed the bench sync on them and put them back on the bike along with new intake boots and gaskets.
    Everything seems to be buttoned up nicely. I had to fiddle with the dreaded 1980 petcock (removed the spring temporarily) to get sufficient fuel flow (in my new, clear fuel lines) to fill the float bowls.
    I tried cranking the motor, and don't seem to be getting fuel beyond the bowls, except in Cyl 2 (when sitting on the bike...second cyl from the right).
    All the other plugs are completely dry. The bike does fire and sputter, but since only one cyl is firing, it doesn't respond to throttle input and dies out.
    Any advice on where to head next since this is the first thing I've ever worked on with a carb?

    Thanks
    Tags: None
    #2
    First of all, let's correct your cylinder order. #1 is under your clutch hand, #4 is under your throttle hand, so the one you mentioned would be #3, not #2.

    Now to your problem.
    You used a "biodegradeable parts washer solution". I have no idea how that would compare to a good carb-dip solution, so I don't know if it did the job or not. The parts of the carbs that need to be cleaned are not parts that can be seen, so a visual inspection is virtually worthless. The dip will clean out most of the gunk, or at least soften it up considerably, so that a spray with carb cleaner followed by compressed air will assure that the passages are clean.

    Any chance you are using an inline fuel filter? If you are, it needs to be one that is compatible with a gravity-fed system. One for a lawn mower works well.

    One other possibility is to verify your starting procedure. After the float bowls are filled, use full 'choke', NO throttle, push the starter button. If that still does not do it, check your spark plugs to see if they are wet. If they are wet, you are at least getting gas. While the plug is out, connect its wire to it, crank the engine to see if you have spark.

    If all else fails, there is also the possiblity that you need to adjust the valves. Mis-adjusted valves are the greatest cause of hard starting when cold.

    .
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    Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
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    Comment

      #3
      Get a proper carb dip and do it right. Change all the o-rings too.
      Get a new petcock also.
      Make sure the vent lines are clear and the fuel tank is venting.
      1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
      1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

      Comment

        #4
        Well I live in Canada, and though they probably sell a carb dip, I checked TSC, three local motorcycle shops, Canadian Tire, Home Depot, and a couple of other auto parts stores and nobody sold anything except carb spray. I dismantled the carbs, used a cleaner that is typically used in parts wash bays. I used carb cleaner followed by compressed air to clean out all the passages in the carbs.
        I removed all four plugs, and have spark at all four cylinders. Initially I did not have much fuel flow into the float bowls, so I dismantled the petcock (for the second time) verified the proper position of the adjuster screw to allow free flow of fuel. Removed the spring that holds the diaphragm up in case the motor was having a difficult time creating enough vacuum with the float bowls empty. Got good fuel flow into the bowls and now all are completely full of fuel. The petcock is stock (1980 type) and has an attached filter which is perfectly clean. The fuel lines are clear and brand new so I can see if fuel is being drawn or if air is getting into the system.
        I have one cylinder (which would be cylinder 3) that is getting fuel as the spark plug is wet, all other cylinders are absolutely dry and are not getting any fuel whatsoever.

        Comment

          #5
          The comment about the carbs looking clean was just referencing that I have seen plenty of pictures where carbs were full of gunk, rust, or other debris. Mine were virtually spotless even before the cleaning procedure, and I did everything outlined in the CV carb rebuild procedure, including cleaning everything I could with a bristle from a wire brush. I rebuilt the carbs in exactly reverse order from which they were disassembled.
          I know that everyone on here stresses doing the job right the first time. And believe me if I was unsure of my own work, that would be the first thing I would check. What I was looking for was a check procedure beyond what I have already done to diagnose where the fuel might be getting hung up, or tricks I might be able to do (like using a TINY bit of starting spray) to help get things moving.
          I could spend hours taking things apart, cleaning again, putting them back on, just to get to this same spot. I'm willing to do so if that's the likely issue, but supposing I do, and get to this same situation, then what would you suggest I try next?

          Comment

            #6
            Next thing to do is a leakdown test & then a compression test to find out why it isn't pulling fuel into the other 3 cylinders! What are the valve clearances? Ray.

            Comment

              #7
              If you spray into the pilot air jet (removable jet on the filter side of carbs) and the carb cleaner comes out the pilot jet that's good. On the opposite side of the filter side of the carbs is the main air jet. Spay into that jet and the cleaner should come out of the main jet area. If this is good to go I'd look into the float adjustment and/or float needles and seats.
              1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
              1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

              Comment

                #8
                I'm not sure how to check the valve clearances. Would that basically just be following the "Valve Adjust" section on Cliff's site? Can a compression test be done on a bike in the same way (With the same tools) as a car? For the leakdown test, I would assume you mean to make sure I'm not drawing or losing air from the time it enters the airbox till the time it leaves the exhaust? I would assume if the common issue is leaking out, I'd just use some soapy water to find the leak just like you would on a tire. There is little risk of drawing a soapy solution into the engine by doing this around the intake boots?

                Thanks

                Comment

                  #9
                  Oh and if I wanted to check the float levels again to get the precise measurement, I'd have to pull the carbs again. Can this be verified/adjusted while they're still on the bike?

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Originally posted by cp___32 View Post
                    Oh and if I wanted to check the float levels again to get the precise measurement, I'd have to pull the carbs again. Can this be verified/adjusted while they're still on the bike?
                    If you can turn the bike upside down, sure.
                    1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
                    1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Haha I actually had that written, (that my only other option would be to turn the bike upside down) but didn't know if anyone would share my sense of humor on that...
                      And I used the search feature and am reading about the leakdown test.
                      I'm trying to gather as many ideas for what to try since the bike is being stored across town at the moment and I can't often get time to work on it so I have to get as much bang for my buck while I'm out there. Line up all the tools and testing procedures, and then get as many done as I can while I'm out there.
                      Exams all this week (and I like grades in the 90's) so I probably won't get to testing anything till Friday at the earliest.
                      I'll take notes and get back to you on what the results of the tests (on the bike) were

                      Comment

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