Honda R/R Sense wire - Direct to Battery?

[mostholycerebus]

This is the relay I have. It has a nice little graphic on the side in what appears, to me, to be some antediluvean language. Easily readable if you click on the image.

So, near as I can make out:
30 goes right to battery with a fuse.
85 goes to ground (can i use the battery ground, or a chassis ground?)
86 is the ground coming off the coils
87 goes to the sense with AND the power to the coils

Wired correctly, I think I can get less than 12" wire between R/R->Relay->Battery. That will have this one relay powering coils and sense, if I understand this right...

[posplayr]

Relay

Those are teh best from a low resistance stand point (it is a mechnical contact), but the main issue with those relays is they are a mechanical device and so are susceptible to vibration. A proper isolated mount is critical to longevity. There are different approaches, but I mounted my on an flexible plastic "isolator" on the battery box which is itself isolated.

I'll do some pics later.

Jim

[Griffin]

I chose the oil pressure sensor wire because, at least on my GS700, it was close to the reg/rec, is energized when and only when the ignition is on, and wiring the sense wire into it from a Honda reg/rec (grounded directly to the neg. battery terminal) gives me 14.2 VDC from 3,000 rpms to infinity.

[mostholycerebus]

Edited in some more info in my previous post.

[posplayr]

Griffin,

I chose the oil pressure sensor wire because, at least on my GS700, it was close to the reg/rec, is energized when and only when the ignition is on, and wiring the sense wire into it from a Honda reg/rec (grounded directly to the neg. battery terminal) gives me 14.2 VDC from 3,000 rpms to infinity.

Griffin,
Sorry when I first saw that i though it was a joke .

Are you talking about an oil pressure switch or an oil pressure sensor?

Not sure what the sensor looks like exactly, but you would think that using a sensor whose internal resistance changed with oil pressure would change the sense voltage unless it had a much higher resistance than the R/R sense wire.

Let me know; I have a spare sensor from an ED I can measure.

Hove you checked the sense voltage changes using this method?

Jim

[posplayr]

This is the relay I have. It has a nice little graphic on the side in what appears, to me, to be some antediluvean language. Easily readable if you click on the image.

So, near as I can make out:
30 goes right to battery with a fuse.
85 goes to ground (can i use the battery ground, or a chassis ground?)
86 is the ground coming off the coils
87 goes to the sense with AND the power to the coils

Wired correctly, I think I can get less than 12" wire between R/R->Relay->Battery. That will have this one relay powering coils and sense, if I understand this right...

30 goes right to battery with a fuse.

Yes

85 goes to ground (can i use the battery ground, or a chassis ground?)

Yes; it is low current so doesn't matter too much.

86 is the ground coming off the coils

NO 86 needs to come from your ignition/on switch.
Your (-) side of the coils are controlled by the igniter and remain unchanged.

87 goes to the sense with AND the power to the coils

That will work well.

There are some details which require only minimum changes to the harness. Like where the relay mounts, how you control it and how you separate the coils that are currently connected to the ignition/on switch.

[bonanzadave]

So, near as I can make out:
30 goes right to battery with a fuse. Correct
85 goes to ground (can i use the battery ground, or a chassis ground?) Correct. Either one should work
86 is the ground coming off the coils. Connect the wire(s) from the coils to 86. This will open and close the relay with the key.
87 goes to the sense with AND the power to the coils Correct

Wired correctly, I think I can get less than 12" wire between R/R->Relay->Battery. That will have this one relay powering coils and sense, if I understand this right...

For the price of the relays I think I would do one for each. One relay for the Coils and one for the RR sense. If you double up on one relay then you have a double failure if the relay goes bad.

[posplayr]

Dave

For the price of the relays I think I would do one for each. One relay for the Coils and one for the RR sense. If you double up on one relay then you have a double failure if the relay goes bad.

Dave it is actually only one failure becuase if the coil mod relay goes out the bike stops. The sense wire won't matter.

replacing the relay or jumpering the plug puts you back on the road.

With two relays if the coil relay goes out, the second one does NOT do you any good becuase you are not running.

If the sense relay goes out you could over charge and not know it . There is a point of redundancy that just masks problems rather than providing any marginal benefit.



Jim

[mostholycerebus]

Holy cow. Cool, thanks guys. Just a few more Qs and I think I got this.

For the coils, they each have 2 wires. The left coil has an Orange-with-white-stripe and a white wire. The right coil has an Orange-with-white-stripe and a black-with-white-stripe wire. If i'm reading other threads right, the Orange-with-white-stripe wires are the coil power, and get wired to relay terminal 87? And the white and black wires are the 'ignition' wires and go to relay terminal 86?

[mostholycerebus]

Last time i looked at this, prob with wiring right to the Kill switch was that its completely covered in plastic and dissapears into the headlight assembly. It looks to have 2 orange wires and a yellow under the plastic.

[Griffin]

Griffin,
Sorry when I first saw that i though it was a joke .

Are you talking about an oil pressure switch or an oil pressure sensor?

Jim

Oil pressure switch. Sorry.

I used this wire because when I first wired it to the tailight wire, I got about 15.1 volts. Looking around the wiring mess beside the reg/rec, I saw a green with yellow trace wire. I looked at the wiring diagram to see what it was, and it was the oil pressure switch wire. It seemed like a good candidate, because it is only energized when the ignition is turned on. There was a connector right there, so I just stuck the brown sensing wire in there, started the bike, checked the operation of everything (including the oil pressure light) and it all worked beautifully. I permanently wired it in, and it's been there for about a year and 3,000 miles with no issues at all.

Edit: Just for the record, the bike regularly sits for a week or two at a time, and the AGM battery is always at 12.7 volts at rest, even after sitting for two weeks. The voltage readings across the battery terminals are 12.8 volts at 1,200 rpm idle, 13.4 volts at 2,000 rpm, and 14.2-14.4 volts from 2,500 rpm to redline.

[posplayr]

It works

used this wire because when I first wired it to the tailight wire, I got about 15.1 volts. Looking around the wiring mess beside the reg/rec, I saw a green with yellow trace wire. I looked at the wiring diagram to see what it was, and it was the oil pressure switch wire.

Well if it is convenient; you realize if your oil warning light is on it is because the pressure switch is grounded. This will cause the R/R to want to increase the output. Since this usually only happens at idle the likelihood of overcharging in minimal. Kinda compensating effects if you will.

Pos

[Griffin]

Well if it is convienent; you realize if your oil warning light is on it is because the pressure switch is grounded. This will cuase the R/R to want to increase the output. Since this happens at idle the likelihood of overcharging in minimal. Kinda compensating effects if you will.

Pos

Well, yeah, but if my oil pressure light is on (even at idle, this is a high pressure lubrication system) and the bike is running, I have other things to worry about besides my charging system.

[bonanzadave]

There is a point of redundancy that just masks problems rather than providing any marginal benefit.

Im with ya Pos. Duane is not a big fan of any relay. I just couldnt figure how to clean the ign switch contacts. Its the only thing left that could be dropping voltage. I did the RR sense relay mod cause I was up over 15vdc. My brake light supply wire was only 10.5vdc. Now Im at a solid 14.5vdc with the relay.

In these old airplanes there is a Master relay switch and a Generator switch.
If I had 2 small switches, one for the coils and one for the RR sense, straight from the battery + no one could ever start or steal my Bike Just gotta remember to turn them off.

[bonanzadave]

If i'm reading other threads right, the Orange-with-white-stripe wires are the coil power, and get wired to relay terminal 87? And the white and black wires are the 'ignition' wires and go to relay terminal 86?

Ahhhhhh, I dont think so. Jim, the balls in your court.