Open letter to the newbies...

[TheCafeKid]

I am not offended by this thread and I hope no one is offended by this post.

As a "Noob" to this forum I get the feeling that it is the old boys club and "noobs" are not really welcome.

If we already knew the answer then the search function would be much easier to use. And to that point, sometimes I don't even know what the thing I am asking a question about is called. These bikes are close to 30 years old, very few are still completely stock, therefore they we could do the exact same thing on two bikes and have completely different questions. A new thread addresses my problem specifically. It is all about me after all.

In closing, if I am not welcome as a noob, ban me for life and make the forum by invitation only. If that is not the case, lighten up. The forum is not going to run out of room for new posts.

No offence intended and none taken on my part. Just standing up for all the noobs out there.

Flame on.

2ish years ago I was a noob on here as well. I didnt know JACK or Sh!t about the GSs other than they were very very similar to the old Kawasakis that I had seen and ridden when i was younger. Id done some basic maintainence on my old CB honduhs, but carbs and valve adjustments seemed like a very daunting task, yet every post i read that was similar to the problems I was having with my 77 750B, the replies were generally "Clean the carbs, adjust the valves, check the charging system..etc" I at first tried to skirt around doing these things for the first week, reading alot, not asking much in the way of questions but simply trying things i'd read. It boiled down to having to DO THE THINGS that were being suggested. There simply isnt any other way around some of this stuff, and if you try to avoid it thinking it will be too hard, looking for some silver bullet fix, you'll only become frustrated and disheartened. There is no pleasure from motorcycling if you refuse to understand that the MOST important part is maintaining your ride. Whether you do it yourself, or take it to a shop. Its an expensive hobby/pasion/sickness (in some of our cases) The way to make it CHEAPER is to learn to do as much as you can for yourself. That, i came to realize quickly. So, i started delving into my manual, reading as much as i could on the board and other sites.

2 years later, ive rebuilt quite a few top ends, of just about every make of the 550 and up GSs, mine and helped others. I used to answer as many questions as I could on here based on MY experiences, suggestions of things to try etc, but not too awfully long ago, right around the time when gas prices peaked and EVERYONE was snatching up old bikes, there was a rash of noobs on here who simply REFUSED to listen to the people who KNEW better. I got fed up with trying to help when I would get told that what i was telling them "couldnt POSSIBLY be the problem" numerous times. I think THIS is what infuriates the guys who DO know the most. If you didnt want to know the answer, WHY did you ask? I still try to help when i can, and even still I learn something new about these bikes and bikes in general every single day. Tips, tricks, mods, etc. But it all stems from the basics. Get the bike running right STOCK first, THEN start modding till your hearts content. Dont assume that just because YOU think you did a good job on your carbs or whatever, that it CANT be the pilot circuit thats making your bike run like crap. Believe me, believe every one of the old skoolers here, we have done it, done it wrong, two or three times, only to learn the RIGHT way..and at least *I* never assume that just because i checked something once, doenst mean it ISNT the cause of my problems... We dont hate noobs, this site wouldnt exist with out new blood coming in. It would just be a bunch of guys with really nice running bikes blowing smoke up each others butts and shooting the chit. We NEED new blood, we welcome it because it means perhaps yet another one of these beautiful machines will be saved from a barn or a scrap yard and be on the road for another 20+ years. But PLEASE, just listen to what those who know are telling you to try, and dont assume, even if you ARE a trained certified race tech/mechanic. There is ALWAYS more to be learned...

[oldgsfan]

As a relative newcomer with little mechanical ability, I have to say that without this site, I would never have been able to rebuild my front brake calipers, cut and fit new brake lines, rebuild my master cylinder, or even attempt to replace my intake boots and rebuild my carburetors.

So I just want to say thanks to all the folks on this site who have shared their experiences with me. I have used the search function often and lots of times, if I see a thread covering something I know I'll need to deal with eventually, I save it to my flash drive.

I even take my laptop into the garage, which is why I once had to replace the keyboard after spilling brake fluid all over it.

Anyway, I'll plan on taking Ed's advice and making more of an effort in the search function.

I'm not at all offended that he suggests us noobs doing so. If I've asked the occassional dopey question, I plead guilty by reason of laziness.

[Zooks]

..........As a "Noob" to this forum I get the feeling that it is the old boys club and "noobs" are not really welcome......

That's the way it's going, slowly but surely IMHO. Some of the old grumps seem to resent newbies moving in. At least that's how it seems at times.

As far as I'm concerned Mark you're more than welcome.

[Zooks]

No offence taken...by me anyway.
When I first started on this forum, I didn't know a regulator from a starter. I did know however, not to question anyone with alot of posts.

That's no guarantee of anything other than being a blabbermouth.

After awhile you get to know who is who and that most of these guys are very, very well versed in all things GS. And some of them drink to much caffeine or perhaps not enough....

Yeah too much. I'm a true insomniac.

I've only ever worked on one bike....mine. Alot of these guys and gals have worked on many bikes of all kinds. I got my feather ruffled a couple times, but took in stride and kept refining my questioning technique. Having the subject your asking about in your posting title helps greatly. I can answer some questions, but just skip the ones I have no clue about. I go back later and read them hoping to learn a thing or two.

We never stop learning Larry. Everyone has something to offer.

I'll stop now, I'm starting to sound religous.

[DanTheMan]

But, But, y'know those noob questions that make you answer something you or somebody else has answered two or three dozen times already, ups your post count, for all you postw h o r es .............

[Nessism]

That's the way it's going, slowly but surely IMHO. Some of the old grumps seem to resent newbies moving in. At least that's how it seems at times.

I call BS on this.

There are lots of old time GSR members that tend to support each other as one would expect from friends. This should not be confused with not helping new people coming into the fold. People are judged by how much they contribute and/or their attitude. If a newbie comes along, won't even bother to try to search out some info to help themselves then yes, some of the old timers don't bother to help and frankly, I don't blame them. How many posts about charging system and/or carb problems should the old timers contribute to? About 6000 of my posts here on GSR are in this Technical forum trying to help people. I'll continue to try to help but honestly, there are too many people that buy a 30 year old bike, don't do any maintenance to it, and then start posting basic questions that show they didn't even try to do anything to help themselves.

[rputney01]

I got my bike about 1.5 years ago and hadn't had one for 20 years prior to that (coincident with getting married to a nurse). So, this site was a gold strike for me. It took me a while to learn to navigate and to try to use the search function, but I'm using that more efficiently now.

In retrospect, I have had a tendency to ask questions without doing the homework in the search function, though it didn't occur to me at the time that it would be annoying. Even now, the answers to many of the problems I've had are so obvious that it is embarrassing. I have found that the manual makes a lot more sense when I re-read it after getting info from this site.

I can only offer my sincere thanks to the many of you who have responded so quickly and with such good advice. I've learned a lot over the past few months and I have become increasingly aware of how much I don't know. I'm grateful to have access to this body of knowledge.

Thanks.

[Zooks]

That's the way it's going, slowly but surely IMHO. Some of the old grumps seem to resent newbies moving in. At least that's how it seems at times.

As far as I'm concerned Mark you're more than welcome.

I call BS on this.

There are lots of old time GSR members that tend to support each other as one would expect from friends. This should not be confused with not helping new people coming into the fold. People are judged by how much they contribute and/or their attitude. If a newbie comes along, won't even bother to try to search out some info to help themselves then yes, some of the old timers don't bother to help and frankly, I don't blame them. How many posts about charging system and/or carb problems should the old timers contribute to? About 6000 of my posts here on GSR are in this Technical forum trying to help people. I'll continue to try to help but honestly, there are too many people that buy a 30 year old bike, don't do any maintenance to it, and then start posting basic questions that show they didn't even try to do anything to help themselves.

Notice the last sentence in my post - "that's how it seems at times".

Ed, I'm not trying to ruffle your feathers (or anyone elses). I love the guys here and like to think that I am part of this community too.

I just think that lately some folks here are getting a little 'catty' and 'narky' with the noobs. I get just as frustrated and will admit that I have made a few 'tongue in cheek' remarks (okay more than a few) aimed at the virgins. It just worries me that this forum may go down the road that a lot do and become an 'old boys club'.

I really respect a lot of you guys and the wisdom here and I even enjoy reading your crazed rants about religion, politics and the ways of the universe. I think that I've made some friends here and that's kinda cool I reckon.

Just my 2c, honestly.

[Van]

noob say OK

PUTSB, OK,
Thanks for all the help ya'll have given me. This is one noob that needs all the help he can get.

Van

[zuki1000]

Man oh man, this post really got some of you fellas riled up. If you wouldnt mind, me myself kind of a noob would like to place his 2 cents for whatever its worth (maybe a penny at this point).

I have grown up riding these crazy two wheeled machine thingys, riding since I was 8years old. Through those 22 years I have never done anything more then change the oil. (The point of this is to explain that I could ride all day long, but when it came down to reparing one i might as well have started banging my head of the garage door).

This past winter I picked up a non runninng, battered, beat down and rusted out 78 GS 1000. With using NOTHING MORE then the search feature on this forum I was able to rebuild it to a perfectly running possibly show quality bike using my own two hands. Yes my key board suffered because I refused to take the time to wash the grease off them before I searched out an answer to my question here, but this was a small sacrifice.

Bottom line, the answers to 99.9% of your questions are answered somewhere in this forum I guarantee it! And for the other .1% of your questions, so what if the senior members get a bit grumpy 9 out of 10 times they will answer the question anyway, they just can't help themselves.

[Larry D]

Along these same lines. I find it disheartening when a noob posts for the first time and gets 2 responses. I try to say hello, give some encouragement and point them in the right direction for the problems they have. Just saying welcome and letting them know that folks are here to help goes a long way.

[spyug]

I am no expert but I've been wrenching for 45 years or so and have learned a lot. One thing I learned long ago is that you never stop learning. I have a good grasp on things mechanical but I learn something new just about everyday from the posts of fine folks on this and other forums.

While it is extremely satisfying to solve your own problems and be thought of as "handy", it is more satisfying to me to help someone else solve a problem. While I'm not a teacher, I really should have become one as I've always felt good about passing on knowledge and will always do so given half a chance.

I never resent newbies but I do get exasperated a time or two, especially when folks refuse to listen. That and the refusal to search first. I find the search feature a little cumbersome too and often you have to rephrase and wade through a lot of chaff to get to the answer...but it is usually there.

Overall, I believe this is one of the better forums on the net. I have sampled others and find the helpfulness, tolerance and camaraderie here to be second to none. It keeps me sticking around and poking my nose in.

Cheers all,
Spyug

[jwhelan65]

Sounds like its time for a group hug!!

[supergrafx]

I call BS on this.

There are lots of old time GSR members that tend to support each other as one would expect from friends. This should not be confused with not helping new people coming into the fold. People are judged by how much they contribute and/or their attitude. If a newbie comes along, won't even bother to try to search out some info to help themselves then yes, some of the old timers don't bother to help and frankly, I don't blame them. How many posts about charging system and/or carb problems should the old timers contribute to? About 6000 of my posts here on GSR are in this Technical forum trying to help people. I'll continue to try to help but honestly, there are too many people that buy a 30 year old bike, don't do any maintenance to it, and then start posting basic questions that show they didn't even try to do anything to help themselves.

Ed, I understand your resentment. I understand actually the resentment from other key members as well. I'm not kissing anyone's rear here btw. You guys are here 24/7 not just because you care about educating the masses but because you guys love the GS series as well and gain further knowledge through the forum. There is another less known site that I've seen key members go to, to which I am too much of a newbee to participate in just yet. I appreciate the wise teachers here that have decided to stay and put up with the annoyance of posts to which someone asks something/doesn't listen to answers/and therefore wastes the time and energy of the members giving input to the question/s asked. I've seen some come through, ask questions, later when they gain knowledge, just disappear. Most of these happenings are perhaps, people trying to get whatever barn-find running (not running good enough for a sale btw) to flip the ride in a craigslist sale to a sucker like myself(similar to how I got my bike from craigslist when I knew no better and still don't know clearly enough I may add). If and when I recieve a cold tone when and if I ask a dumb question which could have been answered by a simple search, I will and should appreciate the sentiment being expressed. It's like having a father (which I never had, I may also add) that scolds you for one's lazy ass benefit to pull oneself together and man up and not make one's little sis do every chore like cleaning one's bedroom (my son often makes his big sis do all the chores while he plays that nintendo ds game thing). This ****es me off, but do to making a hard-lined stand with my son, he is just now starting to pull his own weight. Right now, I've been reading basscliff's valve clearance tutorial, the coil relay mod, ect., as well as having promblems with my dyna s install. Ed told me I need to check for spark now. Now I have to learn how to check for spark. I could not find a tutorial on youtube that showed how to check the spark by laying the plug on the engine case, but it is clear to me I have not searched enough. So it's time to get off my lazy arse and search. I really hope you guys stay here and continue to help us. Some of us, really appreciate and have overcome hurdles never before thought possible because of you guys. My post is starting to make me sick however, I don't like to be this emotional.........

[DanTheMan]

Sounds like its time for a group hug!!

BassCliff posted one a while back, I forgot to save it to my photobucket, couldn't find it when I searched............until I search a little more, you'll have to do without, then again, it might have been than JohnWrench guy (or whatever his screen name is)?????, guess I'll just have to find it, edit, and post that picture of such a great group hug.