Starter click

[chuckycheese]

Click

OK...we've kind of beat up the 'click thing' so I think it will be fine if we don't worry about it.

Now...before you remove your starter (especially if it's hard to do), make sure you've got power to it when you try to start it. There are several ways you can find out. Do you have an electrical meter? If not, you'll want to get one because they're cheap and really come in handy when working on these bikes.

You can put one probe on the positive post of the starter (the one with the wire attached) and the ground probe on the starter body. Then have your sweetie push the starter button (with the ignition on). You should get a good reading of 12 volts, or thereabouts. You could also just test continuity between the solenoid post and the starter post.

If you don't have a meter, disconnect the starter wire and use automotive jumper cables on the starter by putting the positive one on the post and ground the negative one on the starter body or the frame of the bike. (Don't have your Volvo's engine running when you do it.) It's possible that the starter could turn over doing that but still not turn over with the bikes battery...but no need to explain that until you try one of the tests. I prefer the first one.

Don't worry a bit about asking questions.....everybody's happy to help! (Must be about 11:30 PM over there!!!)

[PoPr]

You could also just test continuity between the solenoid post and the starter post.

Ok, finally I got some time over so I could go down to the garage and check if there was power going from the solenoid to the starter. I dusted off my old multimeter from the University-years and measured if I had a connection between the solenoid - starter, and I did! (1 Ohm)

Cheers for all of your help, it´s really invaluable to me!

Soooo, I guess the next step is to remove the starter and open it up?

(Must be about 11:30 PM over there!!!)

Yeah, I´ve got a few things going on in my life right now

[chuckycheese]

The Fix

Well, OK!! Now you've isolated the problem so you're close to the end of your dilemma. You'll quickly figure out how to take it apart as it's a really simple little apparatus. Take it apart carefully and inspect the brushes and the armature as discussed earlier.

I think the service limit for your brushes is probably 6mm (.24 inches). They should be wearing evenly and they'll probably be pretty dirty. I'm guessing your armature will be dark and grungy. As I mentioned earlier, you can clean it up in a jiffy with a piece of emery cloth. Let us know what you find when you get it open!

By the way, the last time I had a problem, my starter was 'dead as a door nail'. I opened it up and the brushes looked great but the armature was really grungy. I shined it up in about 5 minutes and it's worked great for the last 10 or 12 months. So........your problem may be easily solved.

Can you remove it pretty easily?? I hope so. You're very welcome for the help; everyone here is always willing to help and most of us have learned a lot from each other.

[PoPr]

I have taken the starter apart, please look at the images and see what you think.


The black stuff seems like soot... Or is it something else?



Pretty icky!



All shined up. What´s the name of 1 and 2?



I also emery-clothed 3 and 4.
3 are the brushes, right? What is the name of 4?

So, should I do something more before I fit it back onto the bike? (did not have to remove carbs btw) Thanks!

[jimcor]

Your brushes are shot. Replace them and the springs, (cheap), the residue is brush material, lithium grease and commutator dust.

You can get new brushes and springs, and anything else you need, from Stockers Starters... http://www.stockers.com/ . This is a good dude who has helped many on this forum, including me. Rebuilt my electric leg for under $15 including shipping.

#1. The entire assembly: The Armature

#2 The commutator

#3 The brushes

#4 Hmmmm do you mean the backing plate?

Wow pop dude, just saw you were from Sweden. Might be cheaper to source some parts in your neck of the woods.

Gitter done!

[Steve]

1 is the armature windings.
2 is the commutator
3 is one of the brushes
4 is one of the magnets

In basic motor theory, current will come through one of the brushes, pass through the comutator contacts to the armature windings, continue out the other brush to a ground point. The resulting magnetic field will react with the permanent magnet, causing the armature to rotate. Because a new set of windings will now be in contact at the commutator, the rotation will continue.

In your case, there is a LOT of gunk that is doing its best to prevent proper conduction of electrons.

.

[PoPr]

Wow, thank you for your insta-responses jimcor and Steve!

Your brushes are shot. Replace them and the springs...

How do you know my brushes need to be replaced? I googled "starter brushes" to see if I could get a picture of a good brush.. but couldn´t see any difference between the images on google (for instance this one) and my brushes?

[jimcor]

Because of the amount of residue in your assembly and because even tho' they look fine they are considerably shorter than new ones. Plus the springs get week, besides we're talking under $20 USD. BTDT and got the T shirt. I did the clean up and less than a month later the starter quit again.

You might put it together and have it start just fine for awhile since you've cleaned it up, but trust me, replace those brushes and springs.

[PoPr]

Because of the amount of residue in your assembly and because even tho' they look fine they are considerably shorter than new ones. Plus the springs get week, besides we're talking under $20 USD.

Point taken!
And the last (stupid?) question in this thread: Could I ride the bike without the starter??? (ordering time with my local Suzuki dealer is probably 2-3 weeks...)

[jimcor]

Hmmmmmmm, Does the 79 750 have a kicker? If it does you're good to go as long as the starter is in place. With it removed oil will be flung out of the open 'starter hole' in the case. Best of luck my friend!

[chuckycheese]

Starter

I think the brushes look just fine and, as I suspected, your armature was grungy....but, it' not any more. If it took you a few minutes to get it out, I'd suggest you take a few minutes and put it back in. I bet it will start right up and work well for a long time. Just my opinion!

[jimcor]

They do look fine. Trouble is they are not fine. They are worn. Had the same problem with my bike. Cleaned everything up put it back together and it worked GREAT! For about a week.

Steve, 'Planecrazy' can explain about the notch that develops on the back of the brushes that prohibits them from making contact with the commutator because of no spring tension.

As long as the starter is off, replace the brushes and springs and forgetaboutit for another 20 years.

JMHO

[chuckycheese]

Maybe!

They do look fine. Trouble is they are not fine. They are worn. Had the same problem with my bike. Cleaned everything up put it back together and it worked GREAT! For about a week.

Steve, 'Planecrazy' can explain about the notch that develops on the back of the brushes that prohibits them from making contact with the commutator because of no spring tension.

As long as the starter is off, replace the brushes and springs and forgetaboutit for another 20 years.

JMHO

Jim, you may not remember this but I'm almost certain you and I went through the same discussion with the starter situation on my 1100. We could look back in the archives but I'm not that interested and I doubt you are, either.

In any case, someone thought I should change my brushes, even though the armature was an obvious problem and the brushes weren't an obvious problem. I didn't do it...I just cleaned up the armature and stuck the dang starter back on the bike. I'm not certain but I think that was about 10 months ago.......and I just came back from a ride where I stopped/started it 3 times.

I certainly believe in maintenance but I never go beyond what I think is reasonable...especially with regard to a starter because, with the help a pretty girl (or a hill), I can start it, ride home and fix it. Just my opinion!

(By the way, with the help of a fairly big girl, you don't need a hill.)

[jimcor]

Yeah, I remember it. Guess this is just one of those things we'll just have to disagree on. I'm glad a cleanup worked for you, unfortunately it didn't for me. If I'm going to go disassembling the starter I'd put in the new parts just to avoid having to do it twice.

[mcloud]

I'd say check if dealer has the parts, they're pretty common.
If he deosn't have them in stock, order them, put the starter back on and fix it for good once you get the parts.
Cheap price for piece of mind, and you support your local economy