brand new stator failed, how could this happen?

[bwringer]

I wired it from positive to ground only when the power is turned on so it doesn't drain the battery when the bike is off. They used a similar setup with my 71 TS250. The resistor was mounted under the battery. It kept the battery from over-charging when the headlight was off during high revs. There was no voltage regulator on that bike just a rectifier so the battery would over-charge without the resistor. It's worked fine on my 78GS1000 for many years. I just copied the idea because my GS was over-charging all the time, especially if I went on a long highway trip.

OK, I can't stand this any longer. You just broke my brain... seriously, how was that any better or easier than installing a working regulator? A few bucks cheaper, maybe? So you took apart a broken toaster or VCR you found in the neighbor's trash to extract resistors? Are you a hobo? Do you live in a cardboard box? If so, how did you find the electricity to power your soldering iron? Do you really have a soldering iron in your shopping cart?



To everyone else: please don't do that. And understand that you can't just plug in new parts and expect your GS electrical system to be magically as good as new. You damn sure can't outsource this to a mechanic who just wants to get your old bike out of his shop as quickly as possible before something else breaks -- he's just going to plug in the parts and leave it at that. He doesn't and can't care what happens to you a week or a month later.

The electrical systems on these bikes (and any vehicle, for that matter, especially vehicles over 25 years old) are SYSTEMS. EVERY part is important, EVERY part is there for a reason, and EVERY part affects every other part.

This system includes the wires and connectors. You have to check everything (not just the connectors that are easy to get to), you have to clean everything, and you very often have to undo the damage done by clueless previous owners or hack mechanics.

Once in a while, you have to improve on the stock configuration -- adding a more direct ground wire for the regulator, for example, is a well-known upgrade and is dead easy. Changing to a Honda R/R is another well-known upgrade.

You also have to make very sure that the battery is working well and will hold a charge, or this can overload and destroy other components. Yes, it can be like herding cats, since it's very common to have more than one problem at once when things start to go wrong.

And yes, it can cost a few bucks to get everything sorted out. But a new battery is only $40 - $80, and a good used Honda R/R is only $40. A can of connector cleaner is about $6, a tube of connector grease is maybe $2, and your time is mostly free, especially if you're a hobo. If you ignore things long enough, you might need a new stator, and that's around $120.

Unless you have a new bike with a payment book and an extended warranty, dealing with these things is just part of the GS experience.

In case you're wondering, my GS850 will turn 100,000 miles this week and the stator is original. I still have the original regulator/rectifier tucked away as a spare -- it was working fine, but I switched to a Honda unit several years ago because it has a higher setpoint that works better with my AGM battery.

[posplayr]

A few bucks cheaper, maybe? So you took apart a broken toaster or VCR you found in the neighbor's trash to extract resistors? Are you a hobo? Do you live in a cardboard box? If so, how did you find the electricity to power your soldering iron? Do you really have a soldering iron in your shopping cart?

A little harsh perhaps?

He said it worked on his 71 TS250, so he did the same to the GS. For those that are less versed in lectrics, taking a "know" solution might be the path of least resistance.

Having said that, the only thing that your doing is providing a more load. In fact the two resistors are 25 ohms combined so at 14 volts you are pulling .6 amps which is 0.3 amps per resistor. You are burning 30 watts between the two resistor.

What to say? Well there are better approaches. See Bewinger's post for ideas.

Pos

[posplayr]

barsnake

From what I've experienced..

The dreaded Suzuki disease! I'm currently running the factory unit with a slight modification. I added a load resistor across the battery to dissipate some of the energy when the battery water level is low or the headlight is off.

Well this is not quite right; you will always dissipate power when the resistor is across the battery ; see previous calculations not just when these conditions occur.

The Suzuki stator is a 3 phase generator, if the headlight is off; it tries to dump the additional energy onto the battery.

No it doesn't, it shorts the stator which doesn't send current to the battery

If the battery is in poor shape and can’t receive it, the wires (check connectors) and the R/R overheat.

No connections overheat when there is resistance even with normal currents.

It's real important to have a good battery!! The Gs's have a habit of over-charging the battery.

Poorly maintained charging systems will.

The water level has to be checked and maintained frequently or the charging system will fail.

You have it reversed.

The newer components are better then the originals but they too can fail.

Yes, but given the incorrect statements above, the bigger issue is not having the connections in good working order.

If you read the one post, on power and grounding it will explain why I answered the way I did.
Quote:
Ground Loops

This first post was edited to bring the primary analysis , summary and test method to the top. Everything following that has been discussed that is relevant to the analysis has be added here.

GS Power and Grounding Scheme

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=139115


Pos

[barsnake]

You guys are tough! I made my own analysis of what was happening to my 78 GS1000 and used parts that were available. It's been 10 years without any problems. I don't argue with success. I didn't say it was the best solution; it's just another approach that didn't cost a fortune. To answer your question...my shopping cart has a generator to power my soldering iron.

[themess]

It is called, "tough love". You're getting excellent advice on how to stop these problems permanently, at the best price.

[posplayr]

You guys are tough! I made my own analysis of what was happening to my 78 GS1000 and used parts that were available. It's been 10 years without any problems. I don't argue with success. I didn't say it was the best solution; it's just another approach that didn't cost a fortune. To answer your question...my shopping cart has a generator to power my soldering iron.

I'm not questioning what you did so much as your analysis. For some reason given the already constrained performance of the GS charging system, the way you use your GS has proven that this solution works for you. You are probably one of the few and perhaps only people that have "fixed" your charging system this way. Thats great.

However when you offer up this solution to somebody else, you have to understand that you have opened your "solution": up to public scrutiny. As best your solution is mis guided and based on incorrect analysis of cause and effect. It has not bit you yet but that is hardly a proof of principle that would stand up to the slightest scrutiny.

You can take what I posted and put it to good use or you can continue on in blissful xxxorance. It is up to you.

Pos

[bwringer]

Glad you've got the pimped out shopping cart. Heck, you're probably the only hobo in town with an extra refrigerator box for your bike.

As you noted, you can't argue with your success. However, as others have noted, the resistor solution would be a very poor solution for most people, and that's sort of the real issue behind my "hobotech" remarks.

It would be a very bad idea to simply slap in a scavenged resistor or two without bothering to clean all the connections, test your stator and rectifier, and achieve some understanding of the systems involved.

[radbrad]

update - fixed charging system, broke something else

OK, thanks to everybody's help, and BassCliff's web site, I was able to successfully replace my stator and RR on the 82 GS 650G. I cleaned all the bike's electrical connections, ran the RR ground to the battery, and bypassed the circuit to the headlight that is unnecessary in bikes that have no headlight switch, as suggested on BassCliff's directions on his website. It charges beautifully now, at the voltage said to be normal according to the stator papers.

Embarrassingly, I think it was my fault the new charging system I had put in last year burned out. I had cleaned many of the electrical connections then, and the one where the RR hooks into the stator was a 4 prong clip type connections, which I cleaned the female end of by sticking in a file that was too big for the spade size holes. I think I damaged the connection while doing that, one of those connections looked burned out, it probably wasn't fitting properly.

Though I was really happy to see my charging system working great after installing the parts myself this time, I noticed a little oil leaking out of the bottom of my left crankcase cover.. When I checked the bolts of the cover, I discovered that I could turn them all a bit tighter. This was surprising because I had already tightened them well, I THOUGHT, and put locktight blue on all of them (one day earlier). So I went around tightening all the bolts a little more when, to my horror, I broke a bolt, the one right on the bottom of the crankcase cover where the oil was leaking.

I was hoping maybe it was tight enough not to leak oil, but when I started her back up, some oil started to well up there and leak. I should mention that I did of course use a new gasket when putting back on the crankcase cover in the first place and it isn't sticking out anywhere or anything - I think it is in place properly.

I don't know what to do now, I think I have to take it into the shop to get the bolt removed from the engine... My plan now is to order a new set of left crankcase cover bolts, have the shop drill out the bolt and put it back on correctly - unless anyone has any other suggestions how I might do this myself. I don't have many tools and this is my first experience doing mechanical work on my bike.

Another mistake I made was that I took the bolts out of that left crankcase cover without realizing that they were different sizes, even though BassCliff's directions clearly say that some are longer and you have to remember where they go. I found that all the bolts are the same except for two - one is a little longer than the rest and the other is a bit longer than that. I played around with them and thought I was able to figure out where the longer and longest bolts go by trial and error, but it is possible I screwed that up. If anyone has a schematic showing where these bolts go, I could use one. Hopefully, IF I could order new bolts from Suzuki, they will show me where the 2 odd bolts go.

Also, is locktight blue the correct locktight to use for this job? It is the next to strongest locktight, so that's what I took as "medium", which is what was suggested.

That all for my newbie bike mechanic learning experience reflection for today, your thoughts are welcome.

- Brad