Clearance issues! Tricky question! Need some help.

[twr1776]

Within spec is fine for your clearances. As Basscliff mentioned looser is better than tighter on the clearances within the spec range.

[Sandy]

So since my .038mm gauges won't fit the exhaust valves, putting in a shim the next size down will bring the clearance into the spec range, right?

Correct only if there is at least some clearance. With the cam in the position that you would check the clearance see if you can easily rotate the shim and bucket, if you can that means you are somewhere between .000 and .038. Installing the next size shim would put you somewhere between .05 plus what ever your clearance is. If the clearance was .03 or higher it could put you slightly loose but you should check the clearance when finished anyway, but you'll probably be OK. If the the shim and bucket is tight and won't turn you need at least 2 sizes smaller or more just get a measurement, this is where it would be good to have a thinner reference shim.

[Steve]

Ideally, the shim wears and everything else stays the same.

If the shim wears, you have problems.

The shims are heat treated and are harder than the cams or the bearings, so they should NEVER wear.





BigDaddy,
Now that you have done all the work, how are you going to record your results?

Send me an e-mail (not a PM) (click on my name for e-mail address info) with a request and I will send you a copy of my spreadsheet that will help you figure out what size shim you need and will also help keep track of what you have in there from one service interval to the next. 219 satisfied users so far, you could be #220.

.

[BigDaddyD]

New Problem! Which way is right??

Ok...
So today I used Basscliff's method of replacing my shim with a smaller one to measure since my gauges don't go low enough.
And my measurements were all over the place! So I went back and re-measured everything!

I'm probably over-doing it... but I've been measuring each valve with the lobes at 90-degrees to the cylinder AND 0-degrees (aligned with the cylinder)..

So what is the correct way to measure?
The Clymer's maunal says to measure with the lobes at 90-degrees, but the manual I downloaded from Basscliff's site says to measure 2 lobes at once. Exhaust 1 and 2 when 1 is at 0-degrees and 2 is at 90-degrees and so on.

I've followed both techniques and have gotten different measurments.
So now what?

Please help!
Thanks!

[Nessism]

Ok...
So today I used Basscliff's method of replacing my shim with a smaller one to measure since my gauges don't go low enough.
And my measurements were all over the place! So I went back and re-measured everything!

I'm probably over-doing it... but I've been measuring each valve with the lobes at 90-degrees to the cylinder AND 0-degrees (aligned with the cylinder)..

So what is the correct way to measure?
The Clymer's maunal says to measure with the lobes at 90-degrees, but the manual I downloaded from Basscliff's site says to measure 2 lobes at once. Exhaust 1 and 2 when 1 is at 0-degrees and 2 is at 90-degrees and so on.

I've followed both techniques and have gotten different measurments.
So now what?

Please help!
Thanks!

No disrespect intended Daddy, but if you would go back and read post #4 above, I tried to spell it all out for you then...

As stated above...

1) you need a thin "checking shim" (which you apparently got). Good work.

2) you need to check the valves per the Suzuki manual procedure. It is not as simple as setting the cam lobe at either 180 or 90 degrees. The cam needs to be appropriately positioned per the manual and the valves need to be set in pairs so the adjacent valve is not pressing up on the cam.

Crack out the Suzuki manual and use that thin shim of yours to get the true clearance. After you get the new shim installed, rotate the engine and double check the clearance. Keep going...

[BigDaddyD]

Right now I don't have a Suzuki Manual for my bike. Which is why I used the resources on Basscliff's site. I thought they were excerpts from Suzuki Manuals.

What do you mean when you say "Adjacent Valves"?
I'm assuming you mean the 2 valves next to each other on the same cam correct? So Exhaust Valves 1 and 2?
Or do you mean Exhaust Valve 1 and Intake Valve 1?

So, if I'm measuring Exhaust Valve 1 and it's lobe is at 0-Degrees to the Cylinder head, that puts Exhaust Valve 2's lobe at 90-Degrees to the cylinder head. Which means that Exhaust lobes 1 and 2 are now not touching their Valve Shims (assuming the clearances are in spec).

However, if I were measuring Exhaust Valve 1 and Exhaust Valve 2 were pushing down on it's Valve, it could throw my measurement of Valve 1 off.

[MERC_DoD]

Forgive me if this sounds dumb, however... looking at the first post I was wondering if you might have mistaked our US standard feeler guages for metric feeler guages. Metric feeler guages are usually read in hundreds of a millimeter or tenths of a millimeter (.02= two hundreds), (.20= two tenths) and standard is read in thousanths of an inch. Please forgive me if I have made a mistake. Good luck

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. BidDaddyD,

"Adjacent" valves means, for example, #1 and #2 exhaust or #3 and #4 intake valves, NOT a combination of intake and exhaust.

In the picture below you see exhaust #1 pointing forward, parallel to the head. This is the position from which you measure exhaust #1 and #2 clearances.


Use the same position on the other side for exhausts #3 and #4. Point the #4 exhaust lobe forward, parallel with the head, and measure exhaust clearances for #3 and #4.


In the picture below you see the #4 intake lobe pointed straight up, perpendicular to the head. This is the position from which you measure intake #3 and #4 clearances.


Use the same position on the other side when you measure intake #1 and #2. Point #1 intake lobe straight up, perpendicular to the head, and measure clearances for intakes #1 and #2.

This is the Suzuki manual procedure. The Clymer manual procedure will yield different measurements because the cam is never totally "unloaded". Keep us informed.

Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[BigDaddyD]

AWESOME!
Thanks a ton Basscliff!

[BigDaddyD]

Thanks all!!

Thanks for all the help fellas!
I finally got her buttoned back up.
Found some shims in an old '77 750 head I have laying around and managed to get all the valves within spec w/o having to order any new ones.

Also... had fun with the very last bolt on the valve cover... it decided to snap on me, so I had to tear it off again and drill out the bolt....
Gotta love the way old stuff fights you till the very end! ;-)

So now that my valves are adjusted, do I need to re-sync my carbs?
Also, is there a trick to getting the Kurled Knob off of the Cam chain tensioner?

I know... I know... don't mess with it.
It's a 2nd one that I have. My 750's cam chain sounds a bit loose, (I get a knocking sound from time to time) and I noticed some scarring on the front part of the valve cover where the chain passes through.
Figured I'd set up this second Cam Chain Tensioner and throw it on, see if that helps since adjusting my clearances didn't make the knock go away. But I can't get the Knob off the assembly to adjust the spring properly.

Any ideas?

[BassCliff]

Hi Mr. BigDaddyD,

Have you had a look at Mr. bwringer's excellent guide?

http://www.bwringer.com/gs/camchaintens.html

I've also saved a couple of very informative posts on my website, in the 'Engine Odds and Ends' section:

Cam Chain Tensioner Repair

Q. If I had the chain tensioner off my '80 GS1100E and I turned the bike over briefly without thinking....how bad is that? The chain guide where the tensioner pushes has 'moved' so that I cannot get the tensioner back on. Help!

Depends on several things. If the chain jumped sprockets on the cams they are out of time and may have possibly bent valves. At this point you need to pull the valve cover and confirm the cams are still timed at TDC. Then if all is well you need to reinstall the tensioner the way the factory intended.

Loosen the lock nut on the left side of the tensioner and back the slotted bolt out 1/4 turn. Turn the knob on the right side of the tensioner, which in the Suzuki service manual is called a lock shaft handle, counterclock-wise. As you are turning the knob counterclock-wise push the pushrod all the way back. Keep turning the knob until it refuses to turn any further.

With the pushrod still pushed in as far as it will go tighten the slotted bolt so that the pushrod will not plunge out.

Remount the tensioner to the cylinder block. If the tensioner is not going in turn the crankshaft clockwise slowly to get slack in the cam chain on the intake side of the block.

Loosen the slotted bolt 1/4 turn allowing the pushrod to advance towards the cam chain. Tighten the lock nut but leave the slotted bolt loose by that 1/4 turn.

While turning the knob counterclock-wise, slowly rotate the crankshaft in reverse direction, counterclock-wise. This causes the chain to push the pushrod back.

Release the knob and slowly turn the crankshaft in the normal direction, clockwise. You should see the knob rotate as the chain becomes progressively tighter. If it does the pushrod is obviously moving forward under spring pressure signifying the tensioner is in good operable condition. If it moves sluggishly or not at all that means the pushrod or the slotted bolt is sticking. If so remove the tensioner from the block again and inspect the pushrod. It could need cleaning or could be bent or galled. Further crank rotation will take the slack out of the cam chain.


Reset Cam Chain Tensioner
Originaly posted by Mr. TheCafeKid

If you dont have another gasket, pull it off carefully, try not to damage the gasket. If you don't have another, and you mess the gasket up, make one out of some light cardboard (it will work just fine.) and reset it. While you have it off, inspect and clean it up. When you reset it, loosen the nut, loosen the set screw. Turn the knob out, while pushing in on the tensioner rod untill its all the way in. Lock down the set screw, and light tighten the nut. Install the tensioner, and after you have it torqued down, loosen the nut, and the set screw. The tensioner should then pop into place. You should see the knob turn back in a bit. Might help to rotate the engine by hand a time or two. Then, tighten the set screw, back it off a 1/2 turn, and while holding it in that spot, tighten the nut. The set screw should NOT be in all the way tight.

Mr. Billy Ricks adds:

With the tensioner removed from the cylinder block loosen the lock nut on the left side of the tensioner and back the slotted bolt out 1/4 turn. Turn the knob on the right side of the tensioner, which in the Suzuki service manual is called a lock shaft handle, counterclock-wise. As you are turning the knob counterclock-wise push the pushrod all the way back. Keep turning the knob until it refuses to turn any further.

With the pushrod still pushed in as far as it will go tighten the slotted bolt so that the pushrod will not plunge out.

Remount the tensioner to the cylinder block. If the tensioner is not going in turn the crankshaft clockwise slowly to get slack in the cam chain on the intake side of the block.

Loosen the slotted bolt 1/4 turn allowing the pushrod to advance towards the cam chain. Tighten the lock nut but leave the slotted bolt loose by that 1/4 turn.

Here's how to service the tensioner:

While turning the knob counterclock-wise, slowly rotate the crankshaft in reverse direction, counterclock-wise. This causes the chain to push the pushrod back.

Release the knob and slowly turn the crankshaft in the normal direction, clockwise. You should see the knob rotate as the chain becomes progressively tighter. If it does the pushrod is obviously moving forward under spring pressure signifying the tensioner is in good operable condition. If it moves sluggishly or not at all that means the pushrod or the slotted bolt is sticking. If so remove the tensioner from the block again and inspect the pushrod. It could need cleaning or could be bent or galled. Further crank rotation will take the slack out of the cam chain.


Thank you for your indulgence,

BassCliff

[BigDaddyD]

Hi Mr. BigDaddyD,

Have you had a look at Mr. bwringer's excellent guide?

http://www.bwringer.com/gs/camchaintens.html

I've also saved a couple of very informative posts on my website, in the 'Engine Odds and Ends' section:

Yeah, I was following his instructions to rebuild the second tensioner I have. But the Knob was stuck to the adjuster shaft. I wasn't sure if it was threaded on, or just slipped on. Turns out it's just slipped on and mine was stuck. Nothing a little tap with a hammer couldn't fix.
Now I'm just waiting on some new O-rings and such to finish the rebuild.

Thanks again Basscliff!