No power in the rain or when wet

[sultan]

'83 GS650, 25K miles. Relatively recently I have:
-replaced the rings,
-honed the cylinders,
-dipped/cleaned the carbs and replaced o-rings,
-did a full valve job,
-balanced the carbs.
-replaced the battery (and it has a full charge, no cranking problems)
-cleaned/oiled the air filter,
-cleaned all the ground connections
-cleaned all the wiring harnesses
-replaced spark plugs (~1000 miles)
-checked/fixed valve clearance (checked this again today)
-checked compression (170-185 in all 4 cylinders)


The background:
A couple months back I took about a 100 mile ride. On the way back I ran into rain and shortly after the bike lost power and stalled. I could usually restart it relatively easily, and I could get RPMs out of it almost like normal, but I had virtually no power. If I took of as I normally would, the bike would stall. I'd have to ride the clutch to get going. After that I could get up to speed slowly, but had virtually no power. Finally the rain cleared, and afterwords the bike got better and I was back at full power.

A few weeks later I parked the bike and it got rained on. Again, I was able to get it started, but it had virtually no power. It was a light rain. Riding back, sometimes the bike would kick in and take off like a rocket for a second or two, then I'd be back to putting along with no power. This happened several times. I let the bike dry out overnight and it was fine the next day.

Someone suggested that it could be one of the coils that was cracked. Today after I checked valve clearances and buttoning everything back up, I poured a bit of water on one of the coils. No change in idle or response from the throttle. I then poured some water on the second coil, again, no change. However, about 30 seconds later, the bike sputtered and coughed and stalled. Again, I was able to get it started and could rev the engine and get more or less normal response out of it, though it did want to stall a bit. I tried riding it around the block and again I had virtually no power. Even after letting it run for about 5 minutes, it still wasn't running correctly.

I should also mention that I've been riding the bike all season with really no problems other than the lack of power in the rain. I've logged at least 1,000 miles, and as long as it's dry, I'm fine. The bike starts up quickly, has a decent amount of power, responds pretty well to the throttle. As soon as it gets wet, though, I get no power.

Any ideas? Not only what it might be, but also how to determine and verify what the problem is? A list of things to check?

Thank you!

[ziggy2528]

is it poss. that the rear tire is somehow kicking up
water spray/mist near your air box ? Your bike
looks stock so it should have a lower plastic fender. ?
Are there any vent or vacum hose in or around the air box that may have water running along the outside of the hose and dripping off at the airbox? just a thought.

[bonanzadave]

Spark Plug caps. I didnt see that on your list. If you have not put a set of NGK spark plug caps on DO IT NOW.

[sultan]

Oh yeah, I forgot

Oh yeah, I forgot, replaced spark plug caps with NGK's. : /

And I don't think it could be the rear tire kicking up water...when I did my experiment today, I didn't get anything near the airbox.

[chef1366]

Coil/spark plug wires are shot probably shot. Is there water in the airbox? Do you have a good gasket on the ignition cover?

[sultan]

Coil/spark plug wires are shot probably shot. Is there water in the airbox? Do you have a good gasket on the ignition cover?

I would have changed out the spark plug wires when I changed out the spark plug caps, but they seem to be integrated into the coils. They disappear into the coils and there's a seal around the junction. Is it possible to replace these without replacing the coils?

There is no water in the airbox.

OK, I had to look up what an ignition cover was (duh!)...but after doing so, I'm not even sure there is a gasket on the cover. I don't even see a gasket for this on bikebandit. I can certainly test the theory by pouring a bit of water on the cover and see what happens.

The fact that the engine would cut in/cut out makes me think that it might not be the spark plug wires, or anything associated with one cylinder. I'll take a look at the ignition cover and let you know.

Thanks for the advice.

[Buddy]

I had a simular problem with my 850. I cleaned the coils and applied liquid brush on electrical tape around ALL the wires. Silicone might also work. That fixed mine.

Buddy

[sultan]

I had a simular problem with my 850. I cleaned the coils and applied liquid brush on electrical tape around ALL the wires. Silicone might also work. That fixed mine.

Buddy

I have put electrical cleaner and protectant on every electrical junction I could find. I do still need to tape up some of the wire bundles.

Could you expound on exactly what you did to clean the coils? Mine seem to be a sealed unit, and short of cleaning the wires, I don't see what cleaning could be done. Am I missing something?

Thanks for the advice!

[Larry D]

Maybe this will help......

http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum/showthread.php?t=115715&highlight=coils

[earlfor]

I had the same symptoms on my 1150 for a while. In the wiring harness, underneath the right side of the gas tank and above the valve cover, there is a 6 or 9 pin connector, that if I remember correctly connects the ignition switch into the harness. When it rained, water was seeping into the connector causing the problem you describe. I wrapped the connector completely in about three layers of electrical tape and that solved the water intrusion problem.

Also, yes there is supposed to be a gasket on the ignition cover (the right end of the crankshaft). The gasket is no thicker than a sheet of paper, so you can make one from almost anything. (or even gasket material)

Earl

[sultan]

CONTINUED: No power in the rain or when wet

I'm posting more information to this old thread in the hopes of getting some help/advice.

After the previous posts back in June, I decided to try changing out the spark plug wires, just to see. I successfully changed out the 2 wires on 1 coil (for cylinders #2 & #3), then got busy and left it at that, as the bike has been running just fine when it's been dry. I've got well over a thousand miles in so far this season with no real problems.

Yesterday I had to ride in the rain. As expected, the bike lost significant power. I decided to take the opportunity to do a bit of troubleshooting. I pulled over and let the bike idle. I pulled the spark plug wire from cylinder #1, and the bike sputtered and died. I put it back on and started the bike and pulled the spark plug wire from cylinder #2. The bike continued to idle and would rev up while sitting still, but had virtually no power (same problem as when all 4 wires are connected and it's wet) as soon as you start to release the clutch. I pulled the wire on spark plug #3 IN ADDITION to #2, and the idle got a bit rougher, but the bike continued to idle with just #1 and #4 connected, and also displayed the same lack of power. (Also, I noticed that I got a mild shock while holding onto the wires...#3 in particular. I assume this is normal occurrence in the rain, but perhaps not.)

SO...I'm deducing from this that my coil for #2/#3 is getting wet on the inside somehow, not providing spark (I wasn't able to test spark while sitting on the street in the rain without any tools), cylinders #2 and #3 aren't firing, and I'm running a 4-cylinder on 2 pistons. First, would other people that know more about this stuff that I agree?

Second, is there anything I can do to seal the cylinder? Paint it maybe? Caulk the area around the electrical connectors? Dip it in some sort of sealant and then sandpaper off the electrical connections?

Or, should I just pony up the $90 for a new coil from Bike Bandit?

Your technical expertise is greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[bwringer]

Pony up $120 for TWO new Dyna coils from Z1enterprises.com.

[SqDancerLynn1]

That's a tough call, could be the coils, could be the igniter too!

[sultan]

Coils vs Igniter

For what it's worth...

Back in June I did a bit of testing by taking off the gas tank and pouring some water directly on top of the coils. I poured maybe a cup on each one about 30 seconds apart, thinking I might isolate which one was the problem (or determine if the coils were a problem at all).

About a minute after pouring water onto the second coil, the low-power problems started happening, leading me to believe that this might be a wiring harness problem, as previously suggested, since much of the wiring is right below the coils.

However, someone also suggested the igniteor, so another day I poured an entire BOTTLE of water onto the top igniter (at least I think it was the ignitor...what bike bandit calls the "signal generator", on the left-hand side of the bike right in front of the clutch) where the igniter cover joins the bike. That did NOT display any low-power problems whatsoever.

Does this help point the finger at the coils? Or could it be something in between?

Do the coils from Z1enterprises.com (or anywhere) include the spark plug wires, or do those need to be re-connected?

Thank you.

[sultan]

Which coils?

Also, assuming I replace the coils, which ones should I get ?

http://www.z1enterprises.com/catalog.aspx?pid=GS650GLD-1983-IG0

I'm not worried about performance as much as mounting. None of these look like the original coils. Do they mount in the same fashion, or is retrofitting required?

Thanks.