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    #1

    Knocking when cold?

    I just started my '83 GS1100ED that has been sitting for about three weeks. Its last ride was about 1000 miles at the Brown County Rally and it ran great. It has always run great. This evening when I started it there was a noticeable knock seemingly from the left side of the engine from the cylinder or head. After a couple minutes it lessened but was noticeable at 2100-2200 rpm. After a couple more minutes it was gone. The engine has just under 49,000 miles on it and has been ridden hard at times but I wouldn't say it has been abused. The noise doesn't sound like loose valves, cam chain, or clutch basket rattle. Could it be that I'm beginning to get a piston slap when the engine is cold but when it warms up the pistons expand and don't have as much play? I've never heard of this symptom before and I'm grateful for any advice anyone might have.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    IBA# 24077
    '15 BMW R1200GS Adventure
    '07 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
    '08 Yamaha WR250R
    "Krusty's inner circle is a completely unorganized group of grumpy individuals uninterested in niceties like factual information. Our main purpose, in an unorganized fashion, is to do little more than engage in anecdotal stories and idle chit-chat while providing little or no actual useful information. And, of course, ride a lot and have tons of fun.....in a Krusty manner."

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    #2
    Originally posted by Joe Nardy View Post
    I just started my '83 GS1100ED that has been sitting for about three weeks. Its last ride was about 1000 miles at the Brown County Rally and it ran great. It has always run great. This evening when I started it there was a noticeable knock seemingly from the left side of the engine from the cylinder or head. After a couple minutes it lessened but was noticeable at 2100-2200 rpm. After a couple more minutes it was gone. The engine has just under 49,000 miles on it and has been ridden hard at times but I wouldn't say it has been abused. The noise doesn't sound like loose valves, cam chain, or clutch basket rattle. Could it be that I'm beginning to get a piston slap when the engine is cold but when it warms up the pistons expand and don't have as much play? I've never heard of this symptom before and I'm grateful for any advice anyone might have.

    Thanks,
    Joe
    You SURE its coming from the cylinder or head?? Perhaps a lil bit of rotor/starter gear knock maybe?? My ES has a little bit of a "chuf chuf chuf" that im pretty sure is associated with the starter clutch and or rotor...just havent pulled it to see whats going on yet...

    Comment

      #3
      Originally posted by TheCafeKid View Post
      You SURE its coming from the cylinder or head?? Perhaps a lil bit of rotor/starter gear knock maybe?? My ES has a little bit of a "chuf chuf chuf" that im pretty sure is associated with the starter clutch and or rotor...just havent pulled it to see whats going on yet...
      Josh,

      It sure seems to be coming from the left side of the head/cylinder. It seems louder form the front but I can't get my ear as close to the block from the rear. I rebuilt the starter clutch last year so I don't think that's the problem. I also rebuilt the cam chain tensioner last year so it should be good. I'm going to pull the valve cover, stator cover, and check the cam chain tensioner tomorrow.

      Thanks,
      Joe
      IBA# 24077
      '15 BMW R1200GS Adventure
      '07 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
      '08 Yamaha WR250R
      "Krusty's inner circle is a completely unorganized group of grumpy individuals uninterested in niceties like factual information. Our main purpose, in an unorganized fashion, is to do little more than engage in anecdotal stories and idle chit-chat while providing little or no actual useful information. And, of course, ride a lot and have tons of fun.....in a Krusty manner."

      Comment

        #4
        Originally posted by Joe Nardy View Post
        Josh,

        It sure seems to be coming from the left side of the head/cylinder. It seems louder form the front but I can't get my ear as close to the block from the rear. I rebuilt the starter clutch last year so I don't think that's the problem. I also rebuilt the cam chain tensioner last year so it should be good. I'm going to pull the valve cover, stator cover, and check the cam chain tensioner tomorrow.

        Thanks,
        Joe
        Just a note on a rebuild...Ive seen, in GS and other makes, people "rebuild" the starter clutch many times. Some guys even go to the extent of welding the back plate to keep the bits from pushing out on it again..but A LOT of them still fail...Ive had a couple go out, both 750 and 1100..and Ive always just bought new ones just to be sure...COULD be a possibility there...
        I know you're a GS vet, but sometimes *I* have a tendancy to overlook the obvious stuff, and im in one of these motors or a bike at least 3-4 times a week, mine or otherwise. So dont think im trying to insult your inteligence or anything please. What about an exhaust leak or bad gasket there? I know it makes more of a "hiss" really, but i guess if it were just starting to go it could sound a lil different. Piston slap is a possibility, but unless you're seeing blue death coming from the tail pipe to accompany the sound, I just dont think thats the case....Id hate to even consider it but could it be crank racket? I know yours has the welded crank like mine, but they're not welded as well as they should be...49K you say? Barely broke in...Im creeping up on that myself..bout to turn 45k in the next couple of days...
        Last edited by Guest; 06-07-2009, 11:25 PM.

        Comment

          #5
          Originally posted by TheCafeKid View Post
          Just a note on a rebuild...Ive seen, in GS and other makes, people "rebuild" the starter clutch many times. Some guys even go to the extent of welding the back plate to keep the bits from pushing out on it again..but A LOT of them still fail...Ive had a couple go out, both 750 and 1100..and Ive always just bought new ones just to be sure...COULD be a possibility there...
          I know you're a GS vet, but sometimes *I* have a tendancy to overlook the obvious stuff, and im in one of these motors or a bike at least 3-4 times a week, mine or otherwise. So dont think im trying to insult your inteligence or anything please. What about an exhaust leak or bad gasket there? I know it makes more of a "hiss" really, but i guess if it were just starting to go it could sound a lil different. Piston slap is a possibility, but unless you're seeing blue death coming from the tail pipe to accompany the sound, I just dont think thats the case....Id hate to even consider it but could it be crank racket? I know yours has the welded crank like mine, but they're not welded as well as they should be...49K you say? Barely broke in...Im creeping up on that myself..bout to turn 45k in the next couple of days...
          Josh,

          No insult taken. I appreciate the ideas. I'm not ruling anything out but this doesn't sound like exhaust leak or anything that would be coming from the starter clutch. It doesn't sound good but the bike runs fine. Once it warms up the noise goes away. I think that is an important clue. I'm open to all suggestions......

          Thanks,
          Joe
          IBA# 24077
          '15 BMW R1200GS Adventure
          '07 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
          '08 Yamaha WR250R
          "Krusty's inner circle is a completely unorganized group of grumpy individuals uninterested in niceties like factual information. Our main purpose, in an unorganized fashion, is to do little more than engage in anecdotal stories and idle chit-chat while providing little or no actual useful information. And, of course, ride a lot and have tons of fun.....in a Krusty manner."

          Comment

            #6
            How about a partially blocked oil way? That might starve part of the engine when oil is cold.
            Not Pre-ignition is it? Not using a different brand of petrol or partially blocked carbs causing it to run a bit lean (& maybe causing knock).
            Also in my experience any noise at the clutch travels right across to the other side too & can even be louder on the left (it was on the 750 I'm working on).
            Could it be 2 plates sticking that free up when the oil thins out?

            First thing I would try would prob be seafoam in the oil & Gas tank, run it then full drain & filter change etc. Try again...

            Dan
            1980 GS1000G - Sold
            1978 GS1000E - Finished!
            1980 GS550E - Fixed & given to a friend
            1983 GS750ES Special - Sold
            2009 KLR 650 - Sold - gone to TX!
            1982 GS1100G - Rebuilt and finished. - Sold
            2009 TE610 - Dual Sporting around dreaming of Dakar..... - FOR SALE!

            www.parasiticsanalytics.com

            TWINPOT BRAKE UPGRADE LINKY: http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...e-on-78-Skunk/

            Comment

              #7
              Originally posted by salty_monk View Post
              How about a partially blocked oil way? That might starve part of the engine when oil is cold.
              Not Pre-ignition is it? Not using a different brand of petrol or partially blocked carbs causing it to run a bit lean (& maybe causing knock).
              Also in my experience any noise at the clutch travels right across to the other side too & can even be louder on the left (it was on the 750 I'm working on).
              Could it be 2 plates sticking that free up when the oil thins out?

              First thing I would try would prob be seafoam in the oil & Gas tank, run it then full drain & filter change etc. Try again...

              Dan
              Good point Dan, I had some knocking/rattling going on that I swore up and down was coming from the stator side, but in the process of changing my clutch springs, I tightened up the hub nut while i was in there...never heard the sound again...

              Comment

                #8
                Originally posted by salty_monk View Post
                How about a partially blocked oil way? That might starve part of the engine when oil is cold.
                Not Pre-ignition is it? Not using a different brand of petrol or partially blocked carbs causing it to run a bit lean (& maybe causing knock).
                Also in my experience any noise at the clutch travels right across to the other side too & can even be louder on the left (it was on the 750 I'm working on).
                Could it be 2 plates sticking that free up when the oil thins out?

                First thing I would try would prob be seafoam in the oil & Gas tank, run it then full drain & filter change etc. Try again...

                Dan
                Dan,

                Thanks for the thoughts. I have considered a blocked oil passage but didn't think about running some Sea Foam in the oil. I'll put some in tomorrow. I don't think it's pre-ignition but that's a possibility. I've never had any problems running any particular brand of gas. I'll fill it up with some high-octane Shell gas tomorrow. The carbs seem to be clean. The only problems I've ever had with the carbs are clogged pilots and I know immediately when they're clogged by the way it starts and runs. That doesn't seem to be the case as it starts right up, goes into a nice high idle with the choke on, and settles down to a nice steady idle after warming up for a few minutes. I'll try to isolate the noise further but I really don't think it's anything the clutch or starter clutch would sound like.

                Please keep the ideas coming!

                Thanks,
                Joe
                IBA# 24077
                '15 BMW R1200GS Adventure
                '07 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
                '08 Yamaha WR250R
                "Krusty's inner circle is a completely unorganized group of grumpy individuals uninterested in niceties like factual information. Our main purpose, in an unorganized fashion, is to do little more than engage in anecdotal stories and idle chit-chat while providing little or no actual useful information. And, of course, ride a lot and have tons of fun.....in a Krusty manner."

                Comment

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Joe Nardy View Post
                  Dan,

                  Thanks for the thoughts. I have considered a blocked oil passage but didn't think about running some Sea Foam in the oil. I'll put some in tomorrow. I don't think it's pre-ignition but that's a possibility. I've never had any problems running any particular brand of gas. I'll fill it up with some high-octane Shell gas tomorrow. The carbs seem to be clean. The only problems I've ever had with the carbs are clogged pilots and I know immediately when they're clogged by the way it starts and runs. That doesn't seem to be the case as it starts right up, goes into a nice high idle with the choke on, and settles down to a nice steady idle after warming up for a few minutes. I'll try to isolate the noise further but I really don't think it's anything the clutch or starter clutch would sound like.

                  Please keep the ideas coming!

                  Thanks,
                  Joe
                  When is the last time you dynamic synced the carbs Joe? you SHOULD do it every valve adjustment..but I dont..and if you havent in a while, its possible one has fallen out just enough to start hammering on the crank when its cold and starving...

                  Comment

                    #10
                    Hey Joe
                    I'd keep an eye on the oil pressure. Do you have a guage?
                    1983 GS 1100E w/ 1230 kit, .340 lift Web Cams, Ape heavy duty valve springs, 83 1100 head with 1.5mm oversized SS intake valves, 1150 crank, Vance and Hines 1150 SuperHub, Star Racing high volume oil pump gears, 36mm carebs Dynojet stage 3 jet kit, Posplayr's SSPB, Progressive rear shocks and fork springs, Dyna 2000, Dynatek green coils and Vance & Hines 4-1 exhaust.
                    1985 GS1150ES stock with 85 Red E bodywork.

                    Comment

                      #11
                      Originally posted by TheCafeKid View Post
                      When is the last time you dynamic synced the carbs Joe? you SHOULD do it every valve adjustment..but I dont..and if you havent in a while, its possible one has fallen out just enough to start hammering on the crank when its cold and starving...
                      That's another thing to check. I don't think it's likely since it runs smoothly and quietly at idle where the sync has more effect but I'll check it out.

                      Thanks,
                      Joe
                      IBA# 24077
                      '15 BMW R1200GS Adventure
                      '07 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
                      '08 Yamaha WR250R
                      "Krusty's inner circle is a completely unorganized group of grumpy individuals uninterested in niceties like factual information. Our main purpose, in an unorganized fashion, is to do little more than engage in anecdotal stories and idle chit-chat while providing little or no actual useful information. And, of course, ride a lot and have tons of fun.....in a Krusty manner."

                      Comment

                        #12
                        Originally posted by chef1366 View Post
                        Hey Joe
                        I'd keep an eye on the oil pressure. Do you have a guage?
                        Good idea................No I don't.......
                        IBA# 24077
                        '15 BMW R1200GS Adventure
                        '07 Triumph Tiger 1050 ABS
                        '08 Yamaha WR250R
                        "Krusty's inner circle is a completely unorganized group of grumpy individuals uninterested in niceties like factual information. Our main purpose, in an unorganized fashion, is to do little more than engage in anecdotal stories and idle chit-chat while providing little or no actual useful information. And, of course, ride a lot and have tons of fun.....in a Krusty manner."

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Piston slap with make the noise you describe Joe. A little slap when cold is not overly serious although it's not a good sign either.
                          Ed

                          To measure is to know.

                          Mikuni O-ring Kits For Sale...https://www.thegsresources.com/_foru...ts#post1703182

                          Top Newbie Mistakes thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...d.php?t=171846

                          Carb rebuild tutorial...https://gsarchive.bwringer.com/mtsac...d_Tutorial.pdf

                          KZ750E Rebuild Thread...http://www.thegsresources.com/_forum...0-Resurrection

                          Comment

                            #14
                            I don't have an 1100, its a 650, but I've had that noise on startup for years now. I always thought it was maybe a tightish link in the cam chain. I didn't go looking for trouble because it always quietened down after the engine was warm and the engine always ran well. I assumed the parts warmed up and the oil got spread throughout....

                            Comment

                              #15
                              Joe

                              I would suspect the clutch first. When I bought my 1100ED with 49K it had sort of a deep knock at times, and it even seemed to be coming from the left hand side like Dan suggested. At the time I even had a gorilla hub.
                              Not sure now, but we did pull the clutch, swapped out some plates and used the HD clutch nut. After carb balancing I have had no more problems. It went away and I have had no bottom end problems even after doing the top end once (unsuccesfully)and 1166 kit the next.

                              Jim

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