Kickstand kill switch

[mike_of_bbg]

in my thinking, it would be nice to inhibit the starter, but not the coil power when the stand is down and bike is not in neutral. That way, you can start it on the side stand as long as it's in neutral, and you can have it start warming up while you put on your helmet and gloves before getting on the bike.
.

Yeah, but that will let you drive off with the sidestand down - which defeats the purpose of the interlock.

[reddirtrider]

I've never made this one thankfully. Not that I haven't made LOTS of silly mistakes (that's life), just not the sidestand one thankfully.

Oh, and if you keep making the same silly mistake over and over again you may be in the running for a Darwin Award before too long.

I've made it before, but never went down because of it. Just a little grinding, stand the bike bike upright and give the stand a nudge and you're no less the worse for wear.

It's a personal preference, but I don't like those interlocks. Just more to go wrong.

[Dan Ruddock]

The kill switch is the engine stop switch on the right hand control that all Gs's have. My bike does not have a switch on the clutch or a kick stand down light.

My kick stand switch was added to my bike by me and is in series with the stock positive wire from the fuse box that feeds the stock kill switch (engine stop) wire.

My bike will not run or start when in gear with the kick stand down but will when in neutral or when the stand is up. Dan

[posplayr]

Here is the Safety Interlock from the 93-98 GSXR manual.

I think it does what Dan's does. The main thing I see here is that Dan when you installed your kickstand switch yours is normally closed (NC) and it opens when down. The standard OEM switches seem to be oposite that. The clutch inhibit to the starter solenoid is really a separate function which is in series to all this.

I'll look at an implementation that uses the coil mod relay and the standard kickstand switch to do what is in the 93-98 manual. Similar to Dan's behavior. The later GSXR added a relay(as see in teh schematic), not sure why they did not incorporate that into the ignition?

Jim

[reddirtrider]

Here is the Safety Interlock from the 93-98 GSXR manual.

I think it does what Dan's does. The main thing I see here is that Dan when you installed your kickstand switch yours is normally closed (NC) and it opens when down. The standard OEM switches seem to be oposite that. The clutch inhibit to the starter solenoid is really a separate function which is in series to all this.

I'll look at an implementation that uses the coil mod relay and the standard kickstand switch to do what is in the 93-98 manual. Similar to Dan's behavior. The later GSXR added a relay(as see in teh schematic), not sure why they did not incorporate that into the ignition?

Jim

The key to these systems is that when in neutral you can start the motorcycle without the sidestand down. This is nicew if you kill the bike at a stop light. Of course, you must find neutral first. Without any of these systems you just need to pull in the clutch.

Oh, for simpler times when you turned on the fuel, pulled in the clutch and went. Idiot proofing gone wrong.

[Dan Ruddock]

Yes mine is N.O. when down and N.C. when up. It works what more can I say. I plan to put a relay coil mod in the future. I realy did not copy how it was done on later bikes but just designed in my head what would work. Dan

[robertbarr]

The key to these systems is that when in neutral you can start the motorcycle without the sidestand down. This is nicew if you kill the bike at a stop light. Of course, you must find neutral first. Without any of these systems you just need to pull in the clutch.

Hmm, now I'm confused.

The 'standard' setup anymore is really simple.

1) The starter will not operate without the clutch pulled in under any circumstances.

2) There is no ignition and no starter with the sidestand down and the trans in any gear except neutral.

This is how my '01 Bandit operates, and I'm pretty sure most 'modern' bikes. It just makes sense to me. Why would this be a problem at a stoplight? You'd have the sidestand up, right? There would be no need to find neutral.

Unless I'm missing something...

[posplayr]

This is kind of an interesting problem. I've been studying it and have come to a few conclusions. The solution is mostly based on what you are trying to achieve and what you already have.

In the attached pdf you will see 3 charts with different implementations of the same functionality that is being described above. To be explicit I put it into a truth table.

http://www.posplayr.100megsfree3.com/FH012AA_Charging/Kickstand_Kill_Switch_GS1100E.pdf

The first charts shows the simplest implementation to achieve functionality without any lights or coil relay. Notice that the polarity of the stand switch is UP==ON as is consistent with other safety interlock implementations.

The second Chart is a little more complicated as it adds a Neutral light and shows how to connect to a coil relay which is necessary because of the diodes used to LOGICALLY OR the voltages. The Second Chart is equivalent to Dan's,

The last chart shows an implementation for an GS1100E which has low side controls for both Neutral and Kickstand lights. I implemented the LOGICAL OR logic using an additional cascaded Relay. The single diode is required to keep the low side idiot lights functional. The Kickstand Switch is now DOWN==ON

If you are starting from scratch, Dan's solution is pretty good. If you have low side controls then the last one seems to be a minimal solution. From a reliability standpoint as long as the contacts do not burn out in the kickstand relay, then coil relay will remain grounded and should function. You are not relying on the coil to remain in tact. The neutral safety switch adds an additional means of energizing the Coil relay when the kickstand relay is energized.




Pos

[Steve]

The 'standard' setup anymore is really simple.

1) The starter will not operate without the clutch pulled in under any circumstances.

2) There is no ignition and no starter with the sidestand down and the trans in any gear except neutral...

If I were at home, I would see if I could scan the pages (yes, it's more than one) of the wiring diagram that relate to the starter interlock system on my Wing. I think it might be like your Bandit, except you can start the engine without using the clutch if the transmission is in neutral. If it is in any gear, you must pull the clutch to engage the starter. If the sidestand is put down with the bike in gear (or, if the bike is put into gear with the stand down), the engine dies. Also, you can not start the engine if Reverse in engaged. The engine has to be running to use Reverse, which involves raising a lever to move some gears inside the engine, then pressing the start button to have the starter motor turn the driveshaft in the reverse direction.

.

[reddirtrider]

Hmm, now I'm confused.

The 'standard' setup anymore is really simple.

1) The starter will not operate without the clutch pulled in under any circumstances.

2) There is no ignition and no starter with the sidestand down and the trans in any gear except neutral.

This is how my '01 Bandit operates, and I'm pretty sure most 'modern' bikes. It just makes sense to me. Why would this be a problem at a stoplight? You'd have the sidestand up, right? There would be no need to find neutral.

Unless I'm missing something...

Actually, if you are in neutral you shouldn't need to pull in the clutch. I should amend that. Not on any of my bikes anyway and the ZRX1200 is modern enough. Not sure about the Bandit.

[Agemax]

i have a remote start on my bike. 2 seperate receivers, one for main power and one for the starter motor.the starter motor receiver is earthed through the neutral light switch so it wont operate unless the bike is in neutral.
it will still turn over on the starter button if i press it and there is a "hidden" override switch if one of the receivers should fail. it has been very reliable.
therefore i have no switch on the clutch lever as it is not required, but i dont have a switch on the kick stand.
i am just very concious that i flick it up before i ride away.
personally i dont see the need for any extra relays. if you fit a normally closed switch when the stand is up and splice it in between the starter button and the solenoid it will work fine.
if the stand is down it breaks the circuit to the starter solenoid

[posplayr]

have a remote start on my bike. 2 seperate receivers, one for main power and one for the starter motor.the starter motor receiver is earthed through the neutral light switch so it wont operate unless the bike is in neutral.
it will still turn over on the starter button if i press it and there is a "hidden" override switch if one of the receivers should fail. it has been very reliable.

I assume you use this only after the engine is warmed and there is no choke required.

personally i dont see the need for any extra relays. if you fit a normally closed switch when the stand is up and splice it in between the starter button and the solenoid it will work fine.
if the stand is down it breaks the circuit to the starter solenoid

You won't be able to start the engine on the side stand this way without mounting and righting the bike with the kick stand obviously up. Running in nuetral with kickstand down is an allowed condition (see the truth table I posted).

[Sandy]

A simple quick fix might be something like Honda used on my '83 750 Interceptor. They had a rubber extension piece that stuck down from the end of the sidestand and it contacted the ground first and flipped the stand up should you have accidently left it down. It seemed to work. You could probably make something quite easily from a piece of mudflap and some hose clamps.

[posplayr]

Hi Sandy,
I'm not sure this works in all cases depending upon the side stand angle and how you turn into the stand. Was this something honda did specifically for that purpose? Did you ever test it?

I have ridden away with my side stand down at least a couple of times recently and when I started to lean moderately to the left I was just stood up. Suprisingly the stand just stayed down and remained extended without kicking back. I've never experienced being pole valuted, but not hard to imagine.

Hope to see you at the Shasta Rally. Will be working on the ED Gixxer suspension; working exhaust right now (among other things).
Jim

[Agemax]

I assume you use this only after the engine is warmed and there is no choke required.



You won't be able to start the engine on the side stand this way without mounting and righting the bike with the kick stand obviously up. Running in nuetral with kickstand down is an allowed condition (see the truth table I posted).

usually, but if i know i am going to leave the bike for a while then i will flip the choke up so its ready for the next time i want to start it up.
fair enough about the kickstand being down but its all down to his preference on how safe he wants to be.
he has plenty of options now to make his own mind up of what sort of criteria he is after