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Originally posted by posplayr View Post'84 GS750EF (Oct 2015 BOM) '79 GS1000N (June 2007 BOM) My Flickr site http://www.flickr.com/photos/soates50/
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4306/35860327946_08fdd555ac_z.jpg
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Truth Table.
OK guys, I thing the intended behavior's according to my read of the later model Gixxer manual is shown below. I hope this is unambiguous.
I have conclude that normally the clutch inhibit of the starter solenoid is completely separate from the Neutral switch. Of course this could be added as well.
If you are not an EE type, the truth table allows me do reduce the relationships to Boolean Logic so I could figure out different implementations. As it turns out the equation for the table can be written several ways depending upon the polarity of the switches. Given the combination of switch polarity and DeMorgan's theorem, there are several options to implementation LOGICALLY, and so compound that with electrical implementations and no two will be the same.
As an example, if:
SideStand UP = 1
Transmission IN NEUTRAL = 1
Then
IGNITION = TRANSMISSION + SIDESTAND
Else if
SideStand DOWN = 1
Transmission IN NEUTRAL = 1
Then
IGNITION = TRANSMISSION + !SIDESTAND
So the logic is basically a LOGICAL OR, but depending upon the NO/NC type of switch fro the kicks stand you may or may not need inversion. In addition the idiot lights that are implemented generally need low side control and possibly isolation from the other leg of the logic.
So bear all this in mind when you are trying to figure out why someone else is making it so complicated and this thread length goes over 100 posts.
Pos
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Originally posted by posplayr View PostTruth Table.
OK guys, I thing the intended behavior's according to my read of the later model Gixxer manual is shown below. I hope this is unambiguous.
I have conclude that normally the clutch inhibit of the starter solenoid is completely separate from the Neutral switch. Of course this could be added as well.
If you are not an EE type, the truth table allows me do reduce the relationships to Boolean Logic so I could figure out different implementations. As it turns out the equation for the table can be written several ways depending upon the polarity of the switches. Given the combination of switch polarity and DeMorgan's theorem, there are several options to implementation LOGICALLY, and so compound that with electrical implementations and no two will be the same.
As an example, if:
SideStand UP = 1
Transmission IN NEUTRAL = 1
Then
IGNITION = TRANSMISSION + SIDESTAND
Else if
SideStand DOWN = 1
Transmission IN NEUTRAL = 1
Then
IGNITION = TRANSMISSION + !SIDESTAND
So the logic is basically a LOGICAL OR, but depending upon the NO/NC type of switch fro the kicks stand you may or may not need inversion. In addition the idiot lights that are implemented generally need low side control and possibly isolation from the other leg of the logic.
So bear all this in mind when you are trying to figure out why someone else is making it so complicated and this thread length goes over 100 posts.
Pos1978 GS1085.
Just remember, an opinion without 3.14 is just an onion!
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Repeat after me, 100 times before each day's ride:
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
I will put my sidestand up before I ride.
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Killer2600
Originally posted by reddirtrider View PostActually, if you are in neutral you shouldn't need to pull in the clutch. I should amend that. Not on any of my bikes anyway and the ZRX1200 is modern enough. Not sure about the Bandit.
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OK been working on the whole enchalada:
Starter will not crank unless:- either the clutch is in
- or in neutral.
- either Kick stand is up
- or Kick stand down in Neutral
- (Normally Open) Kickstand switch
- Kickstand and Neutral Lights
- Clutch switch (Normally Open)
- Neutral Switch (Normally Open)
- Coil relay Mod
- One automotive style relay (if you have the Normally Closed Kick stand switch then the relay can be omitted but add an additional diode if there is a kickstand light)
- Two Diodes
- Some wires
PosLast edited by posplayr; 06-09-2009, 02:47 PM.
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Originally posted by posplayr View PostOK been working on the whole enchalada:
Starter will not crank unless:- either the clutch is in
- or in neutral.
- Kick stand is up
- Kick stand down in Neutral
- (Normally Open) Kickstand switch
- Kickstand and Neutral Lights
- Clutch switch (Normally Open)
- Neutral Switch (Normally Open)
- Coil relay Mod
- One automotive style relay
- Two Diodes
- Some wires
Pos
a basic switch will not add any more significant load on the circuit and certainly does not require the use of a relay or a diode.
i have spoken to an electrician at work and shown him this thread and he reckons you are getting way over the top for the problem in hand1978 GS1085.
Just remember, an opinion without 3.14 is just an onion!
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Originally posted by Agemax View Posti have spoken to an electrician at work and shown him this thread and he reckons you are getting way over the top for the problem in hand
I stated early on that the individual solution that anyone would make, is doing to be very dependent on what functionality is required. The specifics of switches polarity, and number of idiot lights supported each have the possibility of adding more components and circuitry.
At this point I have added the same components as the GSXR OEM solution coupled with a Coil Mod relay to have full capability involving clutch, side stand and neutral including both idiot lights. This is a more sophisticated safety interlock than the 98 GSXR.
Lets see if your friend can figure that out.
Note the first schematic I showed was the minimalist implementation assuming no lights. Only switches and no diodes.
PosLast edited by posplayr; 06-09-2009, 03:46 PM.
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Originally posted by Killer2600 View PostSuzuki's are different, pulling the clutch is always required when starting...
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Originally posted by posplayr View PostOK been working on the whole enchalada:
Starter will not crank unless:- either the clutch is in
- or in neutral.
Hmmm....and God said, "Let there be air compressors!"
__________________________________________________ ______________________
2009 Suzuki DL650 V-Strom, 2004 HondaPotamus sigpic Git'cha O-ring Kits Here!
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had to go out to the garage and actually check this on the bike. No matter what, the bike (Bandit, as I mentioned) will not crank without the clutch in. It doesn't matter what gear (or neutral). No clutch, no crank.
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