Are my tire beads seated?

[RyanBiggs]

Prologue: So, I would have thought I could have trusted my local shop to at least put a stinkin' tire on my rim without screwing it up four ways from Sunday. They did a good job on the rear, so I brought them the front - disaster. The moron who did it this time used some old tube and charged me for a new one, didn't balance it, and lost the axle nut washer.

It wasn't until I had the thing installed that I noticed that the beads also were completely not seated in a couple of spots - you could see the sidewalls bend in dramatically there as the tire was spun. By deflating, applying some Ruglyde, working the bad areas with a tire iron a bit, and inflating to 40 psi+, I was able to get things *almost* perfect. If you look at the little molded line in the sidewall visible just outside the bead, it will wiggle just a tiny bit at one spot as the tire is spun. If you look really closely, you can see the centerline of the tire move just a tick as this spot passes. It was very dramatic, now it's very subtle. I'm not experienced mounting tires, so I don't know if this is close enough or not.

What do you think? If not, any tips? I tried banging with a dead blow hammer, deflating and reinflating, etc., and can't get it any better. I've been reading how I'm supposed to be doing the seating without the valve core, but I don't think my air chuck will blow without the core - maybe I'm missing something here? To be clear, this is the front on a '79 GS1000E, with a tube...

Also, I think I've discovered in the process that my bearings are shot up there. The wheel spins very freely, but it isn't supoosed to be going pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa as it goes round in a way that's clearly not the brakes, is it?

Thanks!

[twiggy2cents]

if the bead looks even all the way around it is fine. The tires arent manufactured 100% perfect, you will have some run out on one

[RyanBiggs]

Well that's the thing; the molded line in the sidewall that shows the relationship between the rim and the bead isn't quite perfectly even all the way around - it pulls away from the edge of the rim in one spot on one side by maybe a millimeter. (This is the line that is hidden underneath the edge of the rim when things are totally-not-seated. Hopefully it's clear what I'm talking about.)

Perhaps it's just that the tire was bent up by being on there but not seated for a day, and now the asymmetry is due to that?

[chef1366]

There is a line on the tire that should be even all the way around from the rim.
Use WD-40 and a good compresser. The bead will pop. Don't put more than 80# in the tire.

[reddirtrider]

I check my bearings while the wheel is off. Just put your finger on them and turn. If you feel anything but a smooth rotation they're bad.

[RyanBiggs]

Chef - Yeah that's the line I'm talking about - so this little spot where it's not quite even by a millimeter is something I should continue to fight with? It's weird that in this spot, the bead is actually higher than the rest of the way around (line is farther from rim bead edge). It's along a very small fraction of the circumference; you can kind of see the line "tick" out momentarily once a revolution.

I think my rims probably have a lot of crud in the beads; next time I'm going to do this myself and get everything good and clean inside.

So 80 psi is OK to try? Dunlop says 40 max, partly due to liability I'm sure. I've tried about 55 so far, which seated the bead as well as it is (much better than before). No pops though - it had a fair bit of lube - it just seemed to slide into place. I've left this thing overnight with about 50 psi - maybe I'm imagining things, but it seems slightly better seated today.

I didn't check the bearings when the wheel was off as well as I should have - I was in a rush to reassemble as I have to move on Friday. Things are together now, but I'm pretty sure those bearings are shot; for one there is lateral play in the wheel vs. the axle (i.e., the wheel can be wiggled in tilt/camber a little bit) - that can't be right, right? Something else for the to-do list...

[chef1366]

The 80 psi was to pop the bead. Don't ride around with that psi.
The tire may have an inperfection. If it is not beaded you will be able to tell the first time you ride it. Believe me. You'll be bouncing down the road like a basketball.

[reddirtrider]

I didn't check the bearings when the wheel was off as well as I should have - I was in a rush to reassemble as I have to move on Friday. Things are together now, but I'm pretty sure those bearings are shot; for one there is lateral play in the wheel vs. the axle (i.e., the wheel can be wiggled in tilt/camber a little bit) - that can't be right, right? Something else for the to-do list...

No, that's not right and something is wrong. If you ride it - go slow.

[RyanBiggs]

OK I think I'll try the tire and see how it goes - you almost have to have a magnifying glass to see any imperfection now, whereas before it was off by a mile, so it's probably just slightly warped. Seems to be relaxing as time goes on.

Reddirt - Haha I think those bearings have probably been shot for some time, including a fair bit of 100 mph riding - I think I'll just not go fast *any more* until I get these taken care of! It's not a lot of play, but there is some. Might explain some of that pesky speed wobble I'm replacing everything to try to mitigate (I know these bikes are not ever going to be civilized at those sorts of speeds.) Already doing the tires, rear wheel bearings, and swingarm bearings; front and rear suspension were gone through pretty recently so this is the last bit of chassis stuff I need to get to...

[reddirtrider]

OK I think I'll try the tire and see how it goes - you almost have to have a magnifying glass to see any imperfection now, whereas before it was off by a mile, so it's probably just slightly warped. Seems to be relaxing as time goes on.

Reddirt - Haha I think those bearings have probably been shot for some time, including a fair bit of 100 mph riding - I think I'll just not go fast *any more* until I get these taken care of! It's not a lot of play, but there is some. Might explain some of that pesky speed wobble I'm replacing everything to try to mitigate (I know these bikes are not ever going to be civilized at those sorts of speeds.) Already doing the tires, rear wheel bearings, and swingarm bearings; front and rear suspension were gone through pretty recently so this is the last bit of chassis stuff I need to get to...

My 1100 was rock solid at 120 and I'll bet there's lots of folks in here that will say the same about their bikes. If you have bad wheel bearings you're NOT going to have a stable ride. You may have found the problem.

[noobie]

Prologue: So, I would have thought I could have trusted my local shop to at least put a stinkin' tire on my rim without screwing it up four ways from Sunday. They did a good job on the rear, so I brought them the front - disaster. The moron who did it this time used some old tube and charged me for a new one, didn't balance it, and lost the axle nut washer.

It wasn't until I had the thing installed that I noticed that the beads also were completely not seated in a couple of spots - you could see the sidewalls bend in dramatically there as the tire was spun. By deflating, applying some Ruglyde, working the bad areas with a tire iron a bit, and inflating to 40 psi+, I was able to get things *almost* perfect. If you look at the little molded line in the sidewall visible just outside the bead, it will wiggle just a tiny bit at one spot as the tire is spun. If you look really closely, you can see the centerline of the tire move just a tick as this spot passes. It was very dramatic, now it's very subtle. I'm not experienced mounting tires, so I don't know if this is close enough or not.

What do you think? If not, any tips? I tried banging with a dead blow hammer, deflating and reinflating, etc., and can't get it any better. I've been reading how I'm supposed to be doing the seating without the valve core, but I don't think my air chuck will blow without the core - maybe I'm missing something here? To be clear, this is the front on a '79 GS1000E, with a tube...

Also, I think I've discovered in the process that my bearings are shot up there. The wheel spins very freely, but it isn't supoosed to be going pa-pa-pa-pa-pa-pa as it goes round in a way that's clearly not the brakes, is it?

Thanks!

Take it back to the shop that installed it for you and demand your money back or for them to put it on right. You should've done that immediately instead of trying to fix it yourself... that tire is the only thing between you and the very hard and cruel pavement. Also, if there's something wrong with the tire return it to the shop that sold it and demand a replacement.

[RyanBiggs]

Take it back to the shop that installed it for you and demand your money back or for them to put it on right. You should've done that immediately instead of trying to fix it yourself... that tire is the only thing between you and the very hard and cruel pavement. Also, if there's something wrong with the tire return it to the shop that sold it and demand a replacement.

Ha yeah agreed, but it was already installed back on my bike before I noticed, and I'm out of time to screw around since I have to move out on Friday and have the last of my top end / carb overhaul to finish up. The shop isn't even open again until Tuesday, by which time I'll be deep in a moving truck. That's also why I'm deferring the bearings until I get the bike across town. They gave me a fair price on the tire and didn't charge for installation, so I got what I paid for I guess! Besides, I'm not sure I want them touching my kit any more! I've been wanting to get up to speed on tire changing myself anyhow - chalk it up to learning experience. I think the tire itself is OK unless being seated incorrectly for a day is going to cause permanent damage. I figure I'll see what happens when I ride; I'm gonna rip it off next weekend for the bearings anyway and if the tire's screwy I'll march back in there next week. Irritating, for sure.

reddirtrider - I think you are probably 100% right. I've been thinking of the sort of slop these bearings have, and reflecting on high school physics and gyroscopic precession, that's exactly the kind of slop that would couple into a steering oscillation. Not quite sure why I never thought to check these before, but the gaining of experience requires bad judgement I suppose. Good to hear your bike is stable at speed as this gives me a warm fuzzy feeling. I can't wait to ride this thing once I get those taken care of - after that I think all bearings/shocks/fork bits will be no more than a few years old, so this thing should be solid.