THis may have been answered, but I am new, having difficulty...Fuel problem help Plz

[lili]

Thank you and thank you again....

JC... Thank you so much for the kind offer UNFORTUNATELY, I am not close..I am Northeastern PA. Way East of you..(Takes me about 5 hours to get to Pittsburgh -- Sucks to be me! lol)

Mike- I am glad you said motorcycle shop...I've been going to auto supply and tractor supply...No wonder they look at me like I am crazy when I ask for the stuff..LOL I need to make some calls!!

The tank is still soaking. (I may just order the stuff and put it in down the road. I don't know if I can wait to try it out once it is clean...I'm antzing to try it already)Will keep you posted

[lili]

Just some adjustments to go...

Well happy to say, she is back together
She kicks right over and the engine runs smoothly...BUT apparently we screwed up the throttle or idle adjustments because although she runs smoothly - she does it at 45K on idle. (Don't want to kill my son! lol).. BF has a friend who is a mechanic with MC experience. We need to ask him to help us adjust it... We tried and failed miserably...Can't seem to get it to slow down...
Still need to order the POR-15....Tank has been cleaned, but I know it will rerust...Just ran out of cash in the meantime...lol
Enjoy what is left of the Summer! It is going quickly and the comfortable riding weather will soon be gone...

[Steve]

It has been an interesting couple of weeks following this, I figured it's about time to toss in my couple of pennies.

I took the bike to the dealer ... They said that the carburetors would need to be cleaned and that it probably needed valve work. I believe the first part, but not the second. I don’t think there is anything wrong with the valves, but that is just a gut feeling.
I ordered a Haynes manual on line and although helpful to a degree, it tells nothing about what the proper setting on the petcock screw should be.
1) What is the proper setting for the petcock screw?
2) Should I just replace the petcock all together?
3) I was reading in the archive about cleaning float chambers and pilot jets (yeah I have no idea what those are, but am sure I will soon find out!) and know I should do that.
4) The tank looks clean inside when you look down from the top, but it was full of rust. (Guess it was from the bottom….) Guess I should clean the tank.

1) I see from later posts that you have the dreaded 1980 petcock. The engineer that came up with that thing should have been taken out back and shot, and I don't mean with a hypodermic, either. There are only ON and PRI positions, I don't know which one is which, but that petcock is unique in that, unlike ALL the others, it also takes a bit of vacuum to get it flowing in the PRI position.
2) Test if first before you spend the money.
3) You will need to be cleaning a LOT more than just the bowls and jets. Someone already gave you the link to the cleaning pages.
4) Water has a higher density than gasoline, so it will collect at the bottom of the tank. That is why you will find most of your rusty crud down there. For cleaning tips, look farther down my post.

Petcock is not gravity fed it requires engine vacuum in order to operate correctly except int he PRI position. ... does the fuel flow when the petcock is set to PRI?

Because there is no fuel pump on the bike, the whole system is gravity-fed, but does require engine vacuum to turn on the petcock. On all years except 1980, the PRI position will flow fuel freely to fill the carb bowls. On the 1980 models, you need a bit of vacuum to get the flow started, then it will continue without the vacuum. It would be as simple as putting the petcock in PRI, bump the starter, turn the key OFF, let the bowls fill. Fortunately, you should not have to do this very often.

it should have pri-on-res.
forwards/backwards/straight down.

Except for the fact that this is the dreaded 1980 petcock with the screwdriver slot that only has ON and PRI.

Where does one get "in tank carb cleaner"??? I am a mechanical novice but does that mean STP fuel system cleaner??

Just think "additive". STP is OK, Techron is better, Seafoam is probably the best. You can find it in virtually any auto parts store, Wal Mart and many others. Seafoam is in a white 16 oz. can with red lettering. If you are trying to clean the system, I would put in more than they recommend, then run out the entire tank. They typically recommend about 1 oz. per gallon, so you would only add 3-4 ounces to your tank. I would put in half the tank. Go for a ride, burn out the entire tank, then refill it before parking for the night. For those that like to add it regularly, a couple of ounces per tank will keep things fresh. By the way, Seafoam is great for winterizing the bike, too. Just add it to the tank at the recommended ratio, run the bike long enough to make sure it gets through the carbs (a 5-mile ride would be nice) then change the oil and park the bike.

If you're trying to avoid rebuilding the carbs.....First of all, DON'T !! Aside from cleaning the carbs throughly, there are also o-rings between the carbs that need replaced otherwise at some point they will leak.

I think what he is trying to say here is not "Don't clean the carbs", but "Don't avoid cleaning the carbs". There is no way around it and there are NO shortcuts. I see from one of your posts that you have dropped the float bowls and spritzed some cleaner around. That might make you feel better, but the bike won't run any better. There is just NO substitute for removing the carbs, taking them completely apart, soaking the carb bodies overnight in Berryman's (or Gunk) carb dip and re-assembling them with new o-rings from www.cycleorings.com. The guy that runs that little place is a member of this board and provides a fine service.

When you separate the carbs, just don't touch the throttle adjustment screws and lock nuts (that's what one adjusts with the carb sync). They have spring-loaded clamps so you can just pull them apart, then slip them back together. When you put them back together they'll be sync'd as they were before, just cleaner.

Yeah, it probably won't be any worse than it was before, but that does not mean it was anywhere near RIGHT to begin with. Before putting the carbs back on the bike. hold them up to a light and look through the carb throats. I usually look from the engine side. Look at the sliver of light coming around the throttle butterflies. Adjust those screws so the sliver of light is about the same on all the carbs. This is called a "bench sync".

Remembered the name of Kreem, but not the other name, so I am going back to re-read through the thread and then go searching the local stores for it...DOn't really want to do internet..Takes too long... Avoiding the Kreem because most of the gas around here contains ethanol, and so what would be the point if Kreem is soluble in alcohol?? ... BF's brother has a 30 something Suburban, he cleaned his gas tank the hard way - (steam jenny- kerosine and nuts and bolts for scouring agents) and now swears by the following to keep the inside in good shape..Marvel Miracle oil and Stabil in every gas up to the proportions on the bottle...Anyone ever hear of that one before?? Says he read it somewhere... Oh he IS a mechanic...

Kreem is a decent product, but they made a name for themselves long before ethanol was added to the gas. Many people don't realize that it's the ethanol (alcohol) that is messing up the Kreem.
That actually sounds like a decent way to clean a tank. I have a friend that has cleaned several tanks by steaming them out, putting in a couple handfuls of hardware and covering the openings. He then wraps the tank in a piece of old carpet and uses blocks of foam to wedge it into his small cement mixer and lets it run for a couple of hours. He changes the position of the tank and lets it go for a couple more. Does a fantastic job.
Some people swear by the use of Marvel Mystery Oil, Sta-Bil, Seafoam, whatever in every tank of gas. Personally, I have never found the benefit. For occasional cleaning, sure, but not necessary in every tank. That is, unless they only fill the tank a couple of times a year. Any one of those three products will work well to stabilize fuel in a tank for winterizing, and will do a decent job of cleaning, but simply running fresh fuel through the system on a regular basis does wonders, too,

Oh, back to your original statement about the dealer saying it might need some valve work. HE WAS RIGHT.
It might not need the valves re-surfaced or anything like that, but the clearances need to be adjusted every 3-4000 miles. The clearances on these bikes tend to decrease, and that can lead to some serious problems if not caught in time. You should have BassCliff's site bookmarked, he has information there on how to adjust the valves. Look at my sig, you can also get a copy of my spreadsheet that helps you figure out what you need.

As you can see, waiting for stuff ordered on that Interweb thingy won't take much time, compared to all the rest of the stuff you have to do to the bike.

.

[lili]

Thank you AGAIN....

Dontcha just hate it when you lose your post??? Apparently I take too long figuring out what to write...(so I get my technical terms right and don't completely look like the idiot that I am! lol)
Here we go again....

Steve:
Thank you for all of the great information...
Yes unfortunately, I learned about the infamous 80 petcock the hard way...Everyone kept telling me there were 3 positions, and I kept saying ... BUT.... BUT, mine has only 2...I couldn't figure out why...so I just ran with it. Apparently the way to get the fuel to run in this version is by way of the screw to the right of the lever...(only don't leave it open or the bike won't start, and if it does, it backfires and stalls..also learned the hard way...) Using the screw was the only way we got the bowls to fill after the clean up...Otherwise it wouldn't have started.

The rusty tank bottom makes much more sense now that you've explained it. Still need to get the POR-15, but have depleted my budget for now. Still have to order it...But figure if I keep it running with fresh gas, and keep it out of the rain, I should be temporarily ok...

Bought the Seafoam...That was available at my auto parts store...

As for the valves: OOOpppssss!!! Looks like I have bit into quite a project here....

I do have all of the important sites bookmarked...Resource page, BassCiff's .. Also have printed all of these posts as well as various pictures, directions, etc... Has been quite the learning experience.. Thank you to all making this information available...

I do have an envelope written to support the site, but I need to figure it into the budget, so that will be coming in the future too...(Have a very expensive son in college with car problems, rent, tuition etc...)

JC

Some places to start on the idle:

1. You know where the idle adjustment screw is, right?

2. Check that you didn't mix up the throttle and choke cables

3. Check that the throttle screw isn't in a bind. It doesn't need to sit flat in the little bracket on the carbs, rather it should be "pointed" directly at the carb linkage where the end it connected

4. Make sure the little solid piece at the end of the cable is pushed into the linkage and the cable sits in the groove on the linkage

5. The bracket on the carbs should be *between* the nuts on the cable (where the cable can be adjusted). If you put the cable on top of the bracket instead of getting the bracket between the nuts, it would hold the throttle open but wouldn't slip out of place initially due to the added tension

Hope this helps, and good work!

- JC

Yes indeed, I meant 4.5....Forgot my decimal point! (Never was good at math!) Even so at that idle speed it would be a rocket on take off....SPLAT! Not even gonna try!

Thank you for all of the idle tips...Here is what I have done.

1. Idle screw is between carburators 2 and 3 Right??

2. Don't think I did that.... Long one = throttle open Short one = throttle close??? Feels right when I pull on them...but then again...

3. Idle screw may be bound...Last time I felt the idle screw, it felt flat...(Unfortunately I have lousy eyes...Even with bifocals, I can't see well close unless I take off my glasses and get about an inch from the part- which we know is impossible to do here..) Will have someone with better eyes look at it for me.

4. That is potentially a problem...I had a he$$ of a time getting those solid pieces in place... I did a lot of trial and error and wiggle and pray.. (but then again that describes All of my mechanic work....I did tell you I know NOTHING about mechanics!) I know that the wires are in the grooves, but as for the solid parts??? who knows?? I will recheck those... (Majorly sucks that these parts are so hard to see/reach!)

5. The bracket is between...but very difficult to tighten..also not sure what position to tighten in... Will retighten and try again...


Sooo that being said...I still have lots more work to do..It has been an interesting project and definately a learning experience. It has not been with out wear and tear on the body though...
So far here are my battle scars. (yes...another benefit about being a lady, we can get away with complaining about these things..lol)
All the fingernails are broken...(yes it is a girly thing)
I have permanent grease in my creases...(Have to figure out how to get that stuff out before school starts...Can't teach handwashing if my hands look permanently dirty...lol)
I have various lumps, bumps, scratches cuts and BURNS! Also...a very funny blister on the tip of my middle finger from using it as a wrench in those hard to reach places...lol
and can you say back spasms??? (another old age thing!)
But who is complaining??? All part of the fun of the project!
Thanks to all for your help. It has been an interesting August to say the least...
I will keep trying and keep you posted!
Thank you all once AGAIN

[mike_of_bbg]

At no load, it doesn't take much extra throttle to get a really high idle. There are a few reasons why your idle may be very high:

1) your idle speed screw is mis-adjusted

yes, the adjuster screw (it's a thumb screw) is between #2 and #3, below and behind the carbs. Turn it counter-clockwise to set the idle down. This, however, is your last line in the idle defense. It will be useless if #2-#4 below are not correct.

2) you have air leaks

make sure all of the airbox and intake boots are well sealed all the way around the carb inlets and outlets. Extra air = extra idle (oh, and lean burning, which is bad).

3) your cable is too tight

This could be because it's not placed correctly on the carbs, because it's binding somewhere, or simply because it's mis-adjusted. there should be some slack in the throttle - very little, but some (about 1mm)! It should be pretty easy to view the throttle mech on carb #3 from the right side of the bike as you twist the throttle grip.

4) carbs very out of sync

The idea behind syncing the carbs is to be certain their throttle plates are all opening at roughly the same rate off idle. They're all linked, and #3 is the master. If another cylinder is way too closed, relatively speaking, it can cause the rest to hang open extra (the very closed cylinder becomes the new "floor" and stops the rest from closing). Feel the pipes as the bike is warming up. Is any particular one staying cold? That's one possible reason why (there are others; fuel's not getting through the carbs, spark issues, etc.)

[lili]

More good info

Thanks Mike!

Will check all of these!!

[lili]

Long/short...Do you have a two cable throttle? Forgive my lack of knowledge here, maybe it is standard on this bike? (maybe someone can chime in here?)

--Probably not...technically the short cable is the CHOKE....I just called it by the wrong name because I thought it closes the the carburators...Sorry my error...

As mentioned by another, make sure there is a just little bit of slack in the cable with the throttle closed.If they didn't get into place, they could easily bind your throttle linkage. If you open your throttle using the handlebar throttle (not running is easier), you should be able to see this linkage from the side of the bike.

That's what I needed to know....I wasn't sure on that one.....

Absolutely need to check the solid end...That may be my culprit!

I think I was repeating myself here. Can you take a pic or two of your carbs where we can see the linkage?

I'm good on that, I actually know what you are talking about here...The bracket looks like a 2 pronged fork that holds the wire in between 2 nuts on top, and one on bottom...Yes???

As for the eyes, have been considering the surgery but of course no bucks!! lol

Thanks again!!
I don't know when I will get to work on it again...Soon time for school and all my fun is now over...
Take care Enjoy the weather...(Best time to ride...the breezes keep you cool!)

[sachsaca]

Is it this petcock?
The screw is for the open prime and you have the on and reserve setting. The tube at the upward angle is the vacuum line. That line comes from the pipe exiting from between the carbs. The bottom as you know is the fuel line. The screw stays in unless it's sat awhile and needs to be primed. Unscrew it gett'er started and screw it back in. (Thank you Earlfor) Hope all your fuel worries go away. It has been said here many times by many of these fine folks, if your petcock is going bad buy a new one it will be worth the money. Curious, after the mechanic said it wasn't worth fixing did he offer to buy it???

[lili]

I used a set of needle nosed pliers to grab the cable while the bike was running at high idle and pulled down a bit. It immediately dropped in idle.
Adjusting the throttle cable with this end and making sure the cable was pointed directly at the linkage below (it will look strange, but sits just fine in the "fork").

If your cable is in the fork and sits flat on it (as it appears like it should fit), the cable will come out of the cable casing at an angle and may bind a bit.

JC- THanks!! I Need to try that!! Mine has been sitting flat and not fully anchored!

Hope it all works out for you and good luck with school. You a teacher?

Thank you I need all the help and luck I can get...Yup!! I teach at a votech. We get the kids everyone else has given up on and do our best to spark their interest in a career...Sometimes successfully, sometimes not so...

If I can help with anything else, just ask! Either myself or another helpful soul on here will do our best.

- JC

Thank you...I appreciate everyone's help!

Sachsaca-- Yep! THat's it!! seems to be working fine at this point though. Took us a while to figure out the use of the screw! lol

The mechanic wasn't there at the time I picked it up..Was a dealer and he didn't work Saturday...So no one offered...I wouldn't have sold anyway... I figured we could manage something, and with the help of everyone here, we've come a long way! Thank you to all...