R/R Test Reveals Reverse Flow??

[Steve]

I just used jumper cables from the battery on our golf cart to test things. Cart battery read 27.5V, relay read the same, tested about 23V to the coil harnesses for either side with the key on.

Please, PLEASE, PLEASE ... tell me you didn't connect your bike to a 24 volt golf cart battery???

Many of the somewhat delicate electronics on the bike will tolerate up to 15 or 16 volts on occasion, but 24 volts is somewhat out of the question.

Anything that was turned on when you tried this, ignitor, headlight, tail light, instrument lights, etc., is likely to be fried, so plan on a bit more diagnosing and replacement.

.

[crash-harris]

Nope, it's a 12V battery. The cart is gas powered, yet it read out 27.5V with the multimeter set on 200V~

[Matchless]

Nope, it's a 12V battery. The cart is gas powered, yet it read out 27.5V with the multimeter set on 200V~

Unfortunately a 12V battery cannot put out 27.5V, but two 12v batteries in series usually do that and thus give the 24V Steve is referring to.

If you are talking about a single 12V battery measuring 27.5V then you may have a faulty multimeter and will never find an electrical fault in that way. You may also be using the 200V~ AC range and need to switch to the DC scale on your meter.

[crash-harris]

Hehe, that would explain it. I suck when it comes to multimeters. I will try it again today on the V--- settings.

But how exactly to I use the multimeter to check and see if I'm getting 12V at the coils? Do I probe the end of the plug wire and the ground or what?

[bakalorz]

I actually would have used a battery, but the only one I had was from a parts truck with a large hole in the top of it and the one from my brother's car with a busted cell. I realize 100% that I was an idiot in leaving the charger on the bike while the engine was running (wishin' I hadn't done that, lol). I started with 2A on the chargerm but not enough juice to roll the starter over.

So if a fried componant in charging system isn't to blame for the lack of spark, what may be? Coils are new used, goods ones from Ryan, even have NGK boots on them, but still no spark. Ignitor? Watching the video that I took of it running on one cylinder, I realized that at the moment I found out that the rod for the clutch was held together by JB Weld and it boke. I tried to put the bike in gear and it lurched and died, of course. I'll have to go fiddle around with it some more this afternoon. It would have really helped if my moron brother and the guy that had it before him didn't spray paint everything including the wires.

As stated by others before, running the bike without a battery is a BAD idea. Don't EVER do it, not even for a little while.


One of the things the battery does is act as a very big sink for all the spikes in the electrical system.
A way to think about it is as follows
(this is simplified and glosses over a lot, but is still kind of usefull ...)
The stator is trying to put out up to 70 or 80 volts or more.
The battery drags it down a lot, to about 15 or 16 volts or so.
That would be too much and would "boil" the battery out, so the regulator shorts out the stator for part of each cycle. The controls in the regulator are set so that the amount of shorting it does keeps the average battery voltage at around 14.4 volts or so. But if you look at the voltage with a scope, you will see it bounces up and down half a volt or more from the average as the R/R does its thing.

If you remove the battery and run the system, there is nothing evening out the voltage.

When the R/R is shorting the stator, the voltage will be near 0.
When its not the voltage will swing WAY too high. (I have no idea how high, but will guess up to 20 volts or more.)

So basically the voltage goes bouncing between 0 and 20 volts constantly.

I'll guess that you cooked your ignitor

[Guy]

I think he fried the ignitor long before now.
And maybe the multimeter too.

Crash Harris, no offence meant, but you really should get someone who knows what they're doing to diagnose your electrics before you do more damage, if that's possible.

[crash-harris]

Alright, switched the multimeter to the correct setting, cart battery read out at about 12.8V
Key on

Same at starter relay

Same at fuse

Left side coil harness - about 11.2V
At coil - About 2V

Right side coil harness - about 10V
At coil - About 8V

Connections need cleaned reqardless.

Guy, I just didn't have a battery and I knew that I was gambling with the charger, but more than likely all of these things would have needed replaced anway thanks to the neglect of my brother and the guy he bought it from. Half of the terminals were painted over and there where wires hanging out of the bike when I picked it up. I just don't know how to use a multimeter, lol. Just never worked with a bike before so it's a learning experiance for sure (usually I can poke around a truck or old car for a minute or so and figure out a problem easy, but they work differently too).

[duaneage]

Alright, switched the multimeter to the correct setting, cart battery read out at about 12.8V
Key on

Same at starter relay

Same at fuse

Left side coil harness - about 11.2V
At coil - About 2V

Right side coil harness - about 10V
At coil - About 8V

Connections need cleaned reqardless.

Guy, I just didn't have a battery and I knew that I was gambling with the charger, but more than likely all of these things would have needed replaced anway thanks to the neglect of my brother and the guy he bought it from. Half of the terminals were painted over and there where wires hanging out of the bike when I picked it up. I just don't know how to use a multimeter, lol. Just never worked with a bike before so it's a learning experiance for sure (usually I can poke around a truck or old car for a minute or so and figure out a problem easy, but they work differently too).

If the ground side of the coil reads voltage then the grounds are not good. Any Black wire with White stripe ends in a ground terminal somewhere, usually on the frame or battery. You can cut off the ring terminals and replace them with new, the battery terminals are 8 gauge and the rest are 14-16 gauge.

Pick up an assortment of crimp on terminals in a multi pack, and get a few extra packs of male and female bullet terminals, along with a decent heavy duty crimping tool. Replace the brass connectors where ever you find them with the new alloy types.

You are repairing 30 years of neglect so be patient.

[Matchless]

I think you are on the roll now, the guys will help you all the way now. All we now need are pictures and a fairly clear explanation of what you are doing and have found as you go on. I would also suggest printing out a copy of the wiring diagram and keeping it at hand.
Just follow GS1100K as he guides you and look at duanage's advice and keep his contact details at hand as he supplies used, but tested rectifier/regulators with an installation guide which you may require.
Good luck.

[crash-harris]

I have actually been looking for the wiring schematic that I printed out when I first joined here. I'll print another out and put it with the bike. I have a battery that came with the bike but it was as dead as a door nail so I'm going to try and get it charged and see if maybe it'll hold and help me so I don't have to use the golf cart's battery.

The "coil harness" measurements are with the coil disconnected, testing the pins inside the harness on the bike side. The "At coil" reading is with the harness plugged in and the posi cable from the multimeter on the end of the plug wire and the negative on a ground source. I've got a bunch of connectors, but I think I'm going to solder conections on the bike that can be soldered and for removable things I'll get some more spades to use (I've got the female sides, just not male spades).

Thanks for the help guys, I feel like I'm finally making progress again! Probably start replacing conections tonight.

[crash-harris]

Unfortunatly a new $40 battery is out of the question at the moment, BUT, I am trying to get the motocross battery that was with the bike to hold a charge and another Huskee battery from a lawn tractor to use to test the bike as well.

[crash-harris]

I'm going to look up the relay mod since I hardwired most of the connections and mad sure others were clean and I'm still getting 10V at each coil's harness. Also going to try cleaning some more connections.

I do have a spare Ford truck constant duty relay (solonoid) that I'm thinking about using. Why kill it when you can overkill it right? It'll be pretty heavy duty for the bike so I figure it can't hurt anything, it's just a little larger and I'm going to make custom side panels anyway 'cause the bike never had any when I got it.

[crash-harris]

I noticed in the Coil Relay Mod thread that it was Bosch type relays, which I have a TON of stock Ford ones and one Bosch. I hook all my auxillary lights up on my truck with the Bosch type or the stock Ford ones that get replaced with the Bosch ones since they can deal with more power.

But would the consant duty relay work? It's really the same thing as the $40 one (which I need like 2 or three of for various things for my truck, electric fans, etc...).

[crash-harris]

It'll be perfect then. It is larger and it self grounding (plus I can ground it from the 4th post). Been thinking about making a new cable to ground the electronics panel out of some 16 gauge (or 14?) wire. Strip it, braid it, and put the proper connectors on it. Going to put heat shrink on the terminals.

[crash-harris]

This one grounds from where it's bolted (on a truck) to the inside of the passenger side fender and they are ment to be beat on. Been through a lot of mud and over downed trees and some pretty rough terrain with it firmly bolted to the fender. So I plan to bolt it to the electronics plate tightly and not worry about it since they are made to take the vibration and abuse.

I'll try to wire it up this week