FET r/r questions.

[propflux01]

I think my work speaks for itself. Haven't had one fall out of the sky yet.

[propflux01]

She said that when it was cooler in the morning on the way to the meeting (about 70 degrees), it was showing about 14.1 volts, but later, when everything warmed up (low 90s), it would only occasionally reach 13.9. While riding through town, with the occasional use of brakes and lower speeds, it was dipping down into the mid-12s.

Now, with all this novel of a background, my question is ...
for those of you that have installed an FET r/r, have you seen the output change drastically with ambient temperature?

As the promised update, Mine worked almost exactly as yours did with one exception: I never saw 14.1 volts at any time. mine went to 13.8 and stayed rock steady there, until I idled, like at a stop sign with brake on. Like yours, it would dip down into the low 12's. The old regulator I had on before the FET swap (since my stator went out, wasn't sure if old R/R was bad, so i hooked it up first, until my new FET came in) worked very similar with the new Ricks stator that I purchased, with exception being I got 14.4 volts at speed with it. When i changed it out to the FET, it worked Identical sans the 14.4 volts, that, as previously stated, went down to 13.8. In my case, I am figuring the stator is not as strong as the old one was before it took a dump. the old one would never go below 13V at idle, and when I used my aux rear brake/tail lights at would stay at 13.5 to 13.8V at speed. With new stator, it goes down to 13.0. One thing I did notice on the ricks stator was the lack of epoxy on the finished windings, my old one was from Dennis kirk, bought in 2005, and looked like those blue 'beauty's' you see on EBAY (Electrosport?). My Ricks one looks like it just uses the insulation on the wire and thats it. Maybe thats the way it supposed to be, or considered 'acceptable', but considering the output of my old stator, VS the new Ricks, I am not impressed by it. please note my negative connection goes from R/R to frame ground, then from that same ground goes straight to the battery NEG. none of the wires over about 8-10 inches long. POS goes to the bike wiring -- The big "T" that goes one way to the battery, and the other way to the IGN switch/fuse box.

I don't know why yours went to 14.1 at a lower temp, but I would think maybe because it was charging the battery alittle harder after you used the starter, and after you ran for awhile the battery was fully charged and didn't need the 'extra' voltage?

[Steve]

Congratulations on many jobs well done.

Hopefully you are not taking my comment as a personal attack, it's just my cynical side showing through.
I also listen to advertisements with the same attitude. One of my all-time favorites:
"Nothing works better than Bayer (aspirin)."

I say "Fine, give me the 'nothing'. You just told me it works better than Bayer."

Yeah, it's a twisted view, but you haven't met me (yet).

.

[propflux01]

Well, maybe just lucky so far!

No personal attack taken, however, like you, i work with some real 'professionals' that I would not trust to take out the garbage without F*****g it up somehow! when I work on something I strive to ensure that every detail is checked and checked twice, and if I don't know, I will research or ask. Aviation is no place to be lax, and I could never live with the thought of someone losing their life because of what I had done. And yes, I will fly confidently on ANYTHING that I work on! Your view may be 'twisted', but is very understandable and logical. An example of this is a few weeks ago I saw a sign shoe-polished on the back of a pickup truck. It spoke volumes! It said:

There is no "I" in teamwork, but there is a "U" in stupid!

I do hope that the information given in my previous post has helped in some way towards your issue.

[Steve]

I don't know why yours went to 14.1 at a lower temp, but I would think maybe because it was charging the battery alittle harder after you used the starter, and after you ran for awhile the battery was fully charged and didn't need the 'extra' voltage?

First thing tomorrow, I am going to change the connectors between the stator and the r/r. The connectors on the stator are the bullet connectors that Duaneage put on. I added matching bullets to the wires that go straight to the r/r. I am going to change these to all new spade connectors on the chance that the tension in the connectors has deteriorated over the last year.

It has been my experience driving many different types of vehicles over the last 40 years or so, that output voltage is usually just a bit higher at cooler temps. In the case of an alternator, there is usually a temperature compensation circuit because a hot battery should not be charged as high as a cooler one. In the case of our charging systems with magnets, stators and R/Rs, I think the lower output is simply a result of higher resistances in the system when the temps go up. Also, after the drain of starting the battery, the voltage will be a bit lower as the charging system struggles to charge the battery. When the battery is charged enough that it does not demand all of the charging system's output, the voltage will rise and will actually be the highest when the battery is fully charged.

.

[propflux01]

OK, makes sense, however, my connections were soldered in the old regulator, and soldered again on the new one (sans the connectors engulfed in epoxy) unless they are warm to the touch, I doubt replacing Duanage's new connectors will make that much difference, if at all, because they are new.

[Steve]

I have worked in aviation going on 22 years. I (and others in my trade) consider myself qualified enough at it to be called a professional. ...

I think my work speaks for itself. Haven't had one fall out of the sky yet. ...

... when I work on something I strive to ensure that every detail is checked and checked twice, and if I don't know, I will research or ask. Aviation is no place to be lax, and I could never live with the thought of someone losing their life because of what I had done.

I know how you feel. I also have people's lives in my hands at times. I repair and calibrate patient-care equipment in hospitals, so a doctor's diagnosis can depend on what "my" machines are telling him. If they are not calibrated correctly, an incorrect diagnosis is possible, and that can have some serious implications. Not as dramatic as having an airplane fall out of the sky, but just as serious.

Back to the r/r:
I have ordered a new wiring harness from Eastern Beaver. Thought about getting just the connectors, but decided to spring for the entire harness. It includes the connectors that plug in to the r/r, connectors for both sides of the stator to r/r junction and a fuse in the line to the battery. Received an e-mail this morning saying that it had been shipped, so now we'll see how quick the shipping is from Japan.

In the meantime, I will try some new connectors between the stator and r/r to see if that might help. They are the only parts that are not new, although they are only about a year old.

.

[Larry D]

Wonder what difference, if any, it would make to temporarily mount the new R/R out in the wind vise tucked up under the battery box ? I know that these newer R/R don't necessarily require it but, it would be worth a try. Except you have to dig it out from under the battery box again.

I was also thinking about the extra lights on that bike..think it has any effect on this problem ?

Nice meeting you and your wife yesterday. Griffin and I got home safe. I cleaned up the "new" engine a little and did some more inspecting. Found broken exhaust bolt, gas in the oil and some of the wiring was barely hanging in there. Should get it all fixed up by the end of the week or so and in the bike. Hope you get your charging gremlins identified.

[Steve]

Wonder what difference, if any, it would make to temporarily mount the new R/R out in the wind vise tucked up under the battery box ? I know that these newer R/R don't necessarily require it but, it would be worth a try. Except you have to dig it out from under the battery box again.

I was also thinking about the extra lights on that bike..think it has any effect on this problem ?

Did you see my earlier post?

Just got back from CafeKid's place. ... Got out my infrared thermometer, held it as close as I could to the r/r and got 115 degrees F. Considering it's not in direct air flow (under the battery box) and it's 90 degrees out, I don't think that's too warm.

I don't think the problem is overheating. I also don't think the problem is the "extra lights". They are all LEDs, so the drain is minimal. To further the lack of suspicion of the lights, they were all installed and working when I got the 14.55 volt readings in the initial test.

.

[Larry D]

I know that you're meticulous when it comes to your bikes. Which makes this a perplexing problem. I just wish I understood the electrics better so I could help more.......

[posplayr]

I know that you're meticulous when it comes to your bikes. Which makes this a perplexing problem. I just wish I understood the electrics better so I could help more.......

Measuring the voltage drop across the connections would help immeasurably in determining the source of the issue.

R/R (+) to Battery (+)
and
R/R (-) to Battery (-)

Without this you don't know if the voltage at the battery is dropping due to connections or is it is doing so due to a set point change at the R/R.

Measuring the voltage at the R/R output and at the battery is really two different things. Of course if your R/R is all epoxied up, then getting at the spade connections might be a Biatch

[propflux01]

Measuring the voltage at the R/R output and at the battery is really two different things. Of course if your R/R is all epoxied up, then getting at the spade connections might be a Biatch

I seriously doubt the wire I used to to pigtail the connections would add to any resistance. They are only 6" long, then soldered into the stators/bikes electricals. In other words, it now looks like any other R/R that has 5 wires coming out of it. to check voltage all i had to do was measure it before I heat-shrinked the soldered connection. I hate plugs.

[posplayr]

I seriously doubt the wire I used to to pigtail the connections would add to any resistance. They are only 6" long, then soldered into the stators/bikes electricals. In other words, it now looks like any other R/R that has 5 wires coming out of it. to check voltage all i had to do was measure it before I heat-shrinked the soldered connection. I hate plugs.

As per the revised stator pages (I recently updated), the only way to be sure you don't have charging issues is to confirm the voltage drops between R/R and battery at 5000 RPM.

All the descriptions so far strongly suggest poor connections somewhere.


http://www.thegsresources.com/statorpapers4.php

Link to Revised PHASE A of Stator Pages:

[Macguyver]

So what happened?

I was having some problems with a similar issue, and I was wondering if you used any dielectric grease on your contacts?

I am a firm believer in the use of the stuff, any time I find a bad connection in cars I've worked on, there was no dielectric grease used to prevent corrosion, so naturally the connectors corroded.

My electrical/electronics teacher way back in high school had a saying: "Blessed be God, and dielectric grease!"
Before he was a teacher, he was a service tech for G.E. building and upgrading transformer sub-stations, so I figure he knows a bit about electricity and connections.

Any electrical connection I make in either automotive, or in any other weather exposed situation, I always put a dab of dielectric grease on it. Be it LED pool lighting, or spark plug connections. I can sleep at night knowing my connections are safe from corrosion. This, in combination with soldering all wires into their connector end, after crimping, before connecting, and sealing the final connection in double-wall heatshrink, virtually eliminates the need to worry about electrical connections IMO.

Call it overkill, but connections on my car that I may have done...5 or 6 years ago, are as clean as they were the day I originally did them, because of it.

I tend to 1/2 fill female connector blocks with D.G. before final assembly of the harness. Any grease that oozes out of the connector, simply wipe off and use to fill the next connector. Just make sure your connector blocks are clean before filling them.
Brake clean works great in concert with judicious use of your significant others' nail file to "sand" the contacts in the block clean. (just don't put it back in her purse, ask me how I know!)

Just wondering if this might help ease your troubleshooting efforts in the future,

BTW, turns out one leg in my R/R is bad, have you diode checked the reg/rec on the headlight (3rd leg) connection from the stator? I was positive mine was bad, then remembered the "lights" switch on the left control was in the "OFF" position. Switched it on, only to find there was still no conductivity...nuts. And ALL of the connections on my bike have been treated as described above.