Large out of spec tappet clearances

[GregT]

Nice to meet another cynic - I do shims with a micrometer in one hand & an open mind
Here in NZ as you'd know these shims weren't round every corner so a lot got ground.

Greg T

[49er]

Nice to meet another cynic - I do shims with a micrometer in one hand & an open mind
Here in NZ as you'd know these shims weren't round every corner so a lot got ground.

Greg T

Where do you live Greg?

I don't grind mine, as I have a reasonable set to call on. I do have a local motorcycle dismanteler (doesn't that sound much nicer than wrecker) who does exchange shims when required.

[TheCafeKid]

So a 2.55x is about halfway between 2.55 and 2.6 yeah?
I could get one of my 2.6 lapped down to 2.575


I think you are right the PPO may have used the wrong specs.
Not sure I can blame the "fluctuations" for this one.



The bike ran ok and was quite easy to start, it was standard when I got it. The Plugs were the right heat range and the carbs, airfilter and airbox were all standard.
Also the exhaust ports did not appear to have any more carbon than I would expect.
So it seem unlikely that it is carbon, but never say never I guess.

Cheers

Maybe so. But Ive also seen, in motors of bikes ive picked up with the usual "ran great for a while then it just started to run crappy" tag lines, Guys will do ANYTHING that they can think of to get AROUND adjusting the valves. Increasing fuel in the carbs to compensate for the lack of compression/extra air intake from open valves. Changing to hotter plugs because theyve introduced all this extra fuel in an attempt to get the bike to run better, and by doing so did nothing but make the plugs gas foul. Yanking or punching holes in the air box to "get more air in there" or switching to pod filters.... The list goes on and on. What it boils down to is that 90% of the time, if your bike was running well, and then slowly starts to have a harder and harder time starting when cold, rough idle, become buzzy at high RPMs and lopey at low ones, its the valves. But people seem to have this innate fear of adjusting them, like its simply the hardest thing there is to do, or they simply wont read and understand how to do it. Once you done it a time or two, its really quite simple, and at the worst, simply time consuming. But the plus side of it is SOOO worth it.

My point is, your bike may fire up and run just fine with valves that are wacked out. But you wonder how much hair was pulled out of someones head, or how much money and time they spent throwing crap at it to see what would stick in an effort NOT to adjust the valves to get it to that point....

[KiwiGS]

Maybe so. But Ive also seen, in motors of bikes ive picked up with the usual "ran great for a while then it just started to run crappy" tag lines, Guys will do ANYTHING that they can think of to get AROUND adjusting the valves. Increasing fuel in the carbs to compensate for the lack of compression/extra air intake from open valves. Changing to hotter plugs because theyve introduced all this extra fuel in an attempt to get the bike to run better, and by doing so did nothing but make the plugs gas foul. Yanking or punching holes in the air box to "get more air in there" or switching to pod filters.... The list goes on and on. What it boils down to is that 90% of the time, if your bike was running well, and then slowly starts to have a harder and harder time starting when cold, rough idle, become buzzy at high RPMs and lopey at low ones, its the valves. But people seem to have this innate fear of adjusting them, like its simply the hardest thing there is to do, or they simply wont read and understand how to do it. Once you done it a time or two, its really quite simple, and at the worst, simply time consuming. But the plus side of it is SOOO worth it.

My point is, your bike may fire up and run just fine with valves that are wacked out. But you wonder how much hair was pulled out of someones head, or how much money and time they spent throwing crap at it to see what would stick in an effort NOT to adjust the valves to get it to that point....

Ok I may not be a GSR superstar but I do know how to check my tappet clearances and have done so before.
I gave this info so that you would know that I wasnt just ignoring your suggestion out of hand.
"The bike ran ok and was quite easy to start, it was standard when I got it. The Plugs were the right heat range and the carbs, airfilter and airbox were all standard.
Also the exhaust ports did not appear to have any more carbon than I would expect.
So it seem unlikely that it is carbon, but never say never I guess."

How with that info do I give the impression that I am looking for a work around to avoid setting the tappet clearances.

[KiwiGS]

I know this is going to cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth but here goes.
Is there an "engineering" reason why I shouldn’t use shim stock to bring my tappet clearances back into spec?
I would be putting the stock under the hardened OEM shims.
There are a couple of reasons I am considering this.
None of the wreckers or stealerships I have spoken to are interested in selling or exchanging shims.
Yes I can get shims from overseas but it will take a while and the exchange rate and freight make this much more expensive than it should be.
Finally because the gap is too large at the moment and the clearances tend to get tighter over time then next time I have to adjust the clearances I would likely be taking the extra shim out. So it would not be a permanent situation.
Cheers

[Coady]

I have found Z1enterprises.com postage charge quite reasonable to OZ and their shims are about 1/2 the price of shims from dealer. However you will be waiting a week or two using the cheapest postage option (that's to Australia, guess NZ is similar).

[49er]

I know this is going to cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth but here goes.
Is there an "engineering" reason why I shouldn’t use shim stock to bring my tappet clearances back into spec?
I would be putting the stock under the hardened OEM shims.
There are a couple of reasons I am considering this.
None of the wreckers or stealerships I have spoken to are interested in selling or exchanging shims.
Yes I can get shims from overseas but it will take a while and the exchange rate and freight make this much more expensive than it should be.
Finally because the gap is too large at the moment and the clearances tend to get tighter over time then next time I have to adjust the clearances I would likely be taking the extra shim out. So it would not be a permanent situation.
Cheers

NO,NO,NO The shim stock could get dislodged during high rpms causing damage to your engine. It's nowhere near hard enough either, to withstand the hammering it would endure, even for a 10 minute run.

What sizes do you need? I have some spares that I may be able to help you with. Send me a PM with #'s and sizes. It will only cost you a thrashing on that machine when you get it up and running.

[KiwiGS]

NO,NO,NO The shim stock could get dislodged during high rpms causing damage to your engine. It's nowhere near hard enough either, to withstand the hammering it would endure, even for a 10 minute run.

What sizes do you need? I have some spares that I may be able to help you with. Send me a PM with #'s and sizes. It will only cost you a thrashing on that machine when you get it up and running.

Thanks I did suspect that but you know number eight wire and all that.
I sent you a PM the other day. I'll send another.
Cheers

[TheCafeKid]

Ok I may not be a GSR superstar but I do know how to check my tappet clearances and have done so before.
I gave this info so that you would know that I wasnt just ignoring your suggestion out of hand.
"The bike ran ok and was quite easy to start, it was standard when I got it. The Plugs were the right heat range and the carbs, airfilter and airbox were all standard.
Also the exhaust ports did not appear to have any more carbon than I would expect.
So it seem unlikely that it is carbon, but never say never I guess."

How with that info do I give the impression that I am looking for a work around to avoid setting the tappet clearances.

It didnt give me the impression that you were looking for work. Read again what I said. The bike may have run well when you got it, but with valves that out of spec, what did the PO do to get it that way?? Bikes with valves that out of spec are NOT easy to start, unless they've been fiddled with to correct for the out of spec valves....

[tkent02]

It didnt give me the impression that you were looking for work. Read again what I said. The bike may have run well when you got it, but with valves that out of spec, what did the PO do to get it that way?? Bikes with valves that out of spec are NOT easy to start, unless they've been fiddled with to correct for the out of spec valves....

Tight valves would be hard to start, an engine with loose valves should start very easily.
Noisy, perhaps down on power but very easy to start.

[KiwiGS]

It didnt give me the impression that you were looking for work. Read again what I said. The bike may have run well when you got it, but with valves that out of spec, what did the PO do to get it that way?? Bikes with valves that out of spec are NOT easy to start, unless they've been fiddled with to correct for the out of spec valves....

Read again what I said, apart from the large clearances the the bike was STOCK the PO hadn't done anything to get it that way. FWIW the bike did start easily and was not even that loud in the valve train.
I am not looking for work, but I can not just go around the corner and get shims or any other parts for that matter. Necessity is the mother of invention.
Cheers

[GregT]

If there are any shims 49er can't supply, email me

Greg T

[psyguy]

I have found Z1enterprises.com postage charge quite reasonable to OZ and their shims are about 1/2 the price of shims from dealer. However you will be waiting a week or two using the cheapest postage option (that's to Australia, guess NZ is similar).

definitely a way to go. ask for usps first class postage, it's the cheapest option to the nz - would cost only a few bucks and you get NEW shims in the exact size you need for the price the wreckers here want for used unmarked shims that you have to measure yourself, with your own caliper, out of a bucket with a hundred shims in it... customer service

[Suzuki mad]

Before swapping all the shims out please re check your settings.

On the second time around you can the swap some of the shims around to get the clearance's.

It does seem strange that the bikes that far out and runs out without noise.

[KiwiGS]

definitely a way to go. ask for usps first class postage, it's the cheapest option to the nz - would cost only a few bucks and you get NEW shims in the exact size you need for the price the wreckers here want for used unmarked shims that you have to measure yourself, with your own caliper, out of a bucket with a hundred shims in it... customer service

I think you are right mate.
Just had some cowboy try to sell me some oversized shims for $14 each which he told me I would then have to get ground to size.

Before swapping all the shims out please re check your settings.

On the second time around you can the swap some of the shims around to get the clearance's.

It does seem strange that the bikes that far out and runs out without noise.

Trust me I have checked them more than once, and I will do them again before I order some.
I even used two different sets of feeler gauges, If I had a mic' at home I would have mic'ed my gauges as well.
I didn't say there was no noise, just that *I* didn't think the valve train was unexpectedly noisy

If there are any shims 49er can't supply, email me

Greg T

PM sent mate.