Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Countersteering?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Countersteering?

    Q: What is it?

    A: It's turning the bars in the opposite direction of the direction you want to turn/lean. Simple as that. Turn left to go right! (and vice versa) It's not hanging off the bike or turning into a slide. You don't need to know why it works

    Example: Your riding on a straight away next to the white line. Keeping your body straight and using only your arms apply the slightest of pressure to the bars as if turning right. The bike will immediately start leaning to the left and moving accross the lane. When you get to where you want in the lane stop applying pressure/turning bars, correct with left pressure as needed. How much pressure(turning) you use will determine how fast things happenand how long you apply it will detirmed how far it leans over. Baby steps please.

    Mostly you'll here. Press the side of the bars you want to turn to forward. Press right to go right. Press left to go left. I guess it's suppose to be easier to remember this way but I like teaching the turning left to go right because in fact that's what they are both doing but if it's in the back of your head that all you need to do is turn them, you can do that by any means of pushing/pulling and from any angle. Alot of stuff happens when day dreaming and you might just be out of the optimum "press" position.

    It won't take long before you realize how much control you have over putting your bike where you want it in your lane at anytime and as fast as you want it there. And once you can turn in a straight away turning in a turn is nothing. Just keep practicing it until it's a reaction.

    If you've ever heard someone say they went into the corner too fast and the bike wouldn't turn so they went straight doesn't know what to do when the bike won't do what they want it to. Countersteering was their answer and it's been around since the wright brothers(google).

    I hope that all makes sense. I kept it simple as it truely is. You don't need to master countersteering to survive on the street but you do need to use it. It's how a motorcycle turns. No ifs, ands or buts.

    My story: I grew up on mini bikes and such but never wanted a road bike after I borrowed my friends yamaha 175 enduro when I was 15. I took it down the road and did great until the bike wouldn't lean for me and I wasn't making my sweeping left hand corner. The harder I tried to turn the bars left the worse it got. The bike slowed in the grass and turned eventually. About 20 years later I'm talking with a bud at work about it and he explains "countersteering" to me. I trusted him (and google) and tried it on his dr350. It all made sense after that. Trying to turn left to go left was all wrong. On a bike you turn the bars right to go left. That was in the year 2000 and I've put over 100,000 miles on since. I preach countersteering to everyone now. It's amazing how many don't know about it (and are riding).

    Big Al
    Last edited by Guest; 09-09-2009, 02:24 AM. Reason: updated to be more specific

    #2
    all true mate, just watch the super slomo shots of GPriders etc when cornering. they are going around a right hander and their front wheel is pointing left.
    centrifugal and gyroscopic force has a lot to do with it as well.
    that is the reason for tyre wear as well, a predominantly right handed circuit will shag your front tyre on the right hand side quicker because when you are taking fast right handers your front wheel is trying to go left, so you are effectively scrubbing the rubber off that side if the tyre.
    its difficult to get your head round it but its true, and it works!
    1978 GS1085.

    Just remember, an opinion without 3.14 is just an onion!

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Agemax View Post
      all true mate, just watch the super slomo shots of GPriders etc when cornering. they are going around a right hander and their front wheel is pointing left.
      centrifugal and gyroscopic force has a lot to do with it as well.
      Thanks for the response but, nope, not what I am talking about. I don't think the wright brothers slid around a corner when they discovered it, lol.

      I'm talking about saving lives right on the streets doing the speed limits.

      Big Al

      Comment


        #4
        I still can't see how anyone gets past their first bicycle ride without knowing this.
        http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v5...tatesMap-1.jpg

        Life is too short to ride an L.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by tkent02 View Post
          I still can't see how anyone gets past their first bicycle ride without knowing this.
          Yah, me too. It's just how two-wheeled vehicles work, and I have never understood the need to explain it, let alone argue about it as I have seen in the past.
          1983 GS850G, Cosmos Blue.
          2005 KLR685, Aztec Pink - Turd II.3, the ReReReTurdening
          2015 Yamaha FJ-09, Magma Red Power Corrupts...
          Eat more venison.

          Please provide details. The GSR Hive Mind is nearly omniscient, but not yet clairvoyant.

          Celeriter equita, converteque saepe.

          SUPPORT THIS SITE! DONATE TODAY!

          Co-host of "The Riding Obsession" sport-touring motorcycling podcast at tro.bike!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by tkent02 View Post
            I still can't see how anyone gets past their first bicycle ride without knowing this.

            I don't think it is so obvious and it certainly is counterintuitive.






            I cant find a certain link I was looking for but the two below are nice.






            If i had to describe the counter steer as simple as possible:

            From a upright and vertical position by turning the front wheel to the outside of a turn (away from the intended turn), the motorcycle tends to do a low side lay down in the direction of the turn. The counter steering handlebar pressure creates a lay down force which is counteracted by the centrifugal force of the turn which keeps the bike falling completely over. As is normal for a car as well, the rear tire is following a tighter radius turn than the front tire.

            Some bikes feel more neutral after laying over and others need a higher bar pressure to enter , hold or exit the turn but the above concepts generally apply to all bikes when there is significant speed and centrifugal force is created in the turns (i.e. you need to lean).

            The pictures above help to illustrate.

            Comment


              #7
              i can just invisage loads of posts now from people trashing their bikes after going into corners and turning their handlebars the wrong way on purpose just trying out the theory lol
              1978 GS1085.

              Just remember, an opinion without 3.14 is just an onion!

              Comment


                #8
                I noticed while test-driving a GS 850 the feel of the response to counter-steering was quite different from my 1100GL with the buckhorn bars. I expected the 850 to be more responsive but it felt less responsive to a counter-steer. Probably my imagination because I wasn't used to it. I realize the buckhorns are not the most functional piece of equipment in the world.
                1983 GS 1100 Guided Laser
                1983 GS 1100 G
                2000 Suzuki Intruder 1500, "Piggy Sue"
                2000 GSF 1200 Bandit (totaled in deer strike)
                1986 Suzuki Cavalcade GV 1400 LX (SOLD)

                I find working on my motorcycle mildly therapeutic when I'm not cursing.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by 1948man View Post
                  I noticed while test-driving a GS 850 the feel of the response to counter-steering was quite different from my 1100GL with the buckhorn bars. I expected the 850 to be more responsive but it felt less responsive to a counter-steer. Probably my imagination because I wasn't used to it. I realize the buckhorns are not the most functional piece of equipment in the world.
                  a shaft drive will have a whole different effect on the matter, what with drive torque affecting the rear end during cornering
                  1978 GS1085.

                  Just remember, an opinion without 3.14 is just an onion!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Big Al in NY View Post
                    Thanks for the response but, nope, not what I am talking about. I don't think the wright brothers slid around a corner when they discovered it, lol.

                    I'm talking about saving lives right on the streets doing the speed limits.

                    Big Al
                    Bull****.

                    You're a Gummint Agent

                    You really seriously think 60 year old guys riding 30 year old machinery don't know how to steer the fukken thing ????

                    Yer nukken Fuzt

                    Troll.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Agemax View Post
                      i can just invisage loads of posts now from people trashing their bikes after going into corners and turning their handlebars the wrong way on purpose just trying out the theory lol
                      If you can turn your bars at speed you're a better man than I.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by reddirtrider View Post
                        If you can turn your bars at speed you're a better man than I.
                        true that, i sure cant

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Big Al in NY View Post
                          Q: ........
                          ............
                          A: It's turning the bars in the opposite direction of the direction you want to turn/lean. ................
                          ...............
                          Big Al
                          Al,

                          Somewhat like others have said, I would say "push right to go right, push left to go left". Dont really turn bars. Just push against the bar a little bit, not really enough to turn bars.

                          Yes, it is intersting how some people dont really know abouyt this but they do it anyway without knowing.
                          But then again ask someone how they turn when they are running or walking, and they probably cant tell you that either.

                          THink of this; when a one year old baby learns to walk, do you think he really knows how he is doing that? ANd did he ever figure it out? WHen that same kid learns to ride a bycycle at age 5, do you really think he understands it all? SOmehow the brain learns what to do, but does the person really understand it? And then the same, at age 20 when a person thinks he learns to ride motorcycle ... ... ... ...
                          http://webpages.charter.net/ddvrnr/GS850_1100_Emblems.jpg
                          Had 850G for 14 years. Now have GK since 2005.
                          GK at IndyMotoGP Suzuki Display... ... GK on GSResources Page ... ... Euro Trash Ego Machine .. ..3 mo'cykls.... update 2 mocykl


                          https://imgur.com/YTMtgq4

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Agemax View Post
                            a shaft drive will have a whole different effect on the matter, what with drive torque affecting the rear end during cornering
                            Not so. A shaft-drive bike feels just the same when you press on the handgrips to go around corners.

                            The only difference due to the shaft is whether the rear rises or falls when you get on/off the throttle, and the GS does not do that very much, either.

                            .
                            sigpic
                            mine: 2000 Honda GoldWing GL1500SE and 1980 GS850G'K' "Junior"
                            hers: 1982 GS850GL - "Angel" and 1969 Suzuki T250 Scrambler
                            #1 son: 1986 Yamaha Venture Royale 1300 and 1982 GS650GL "Rat Bagger"
                            #2 son: 1980 GS1000G
                            Family Portrait
                            Siblings and Spouses
                            Mom's first ride
                            Want a copy of my valve adjust spreadsheet for your 2-valve per cylinder engine? Send me an e-mail request (not a PM)
                            (Click on my username in the upper-left corner for e-mail info.)

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by 1948man View Post
                              I noticed while test-driving a GS 850 the feel of the response to counter-steering was quite different from my 1100GL with the buckhorn bars. I expected the 850 to be more responsive but it felt less responsive to a counter-steer. Probably my imagination because I wasn't used to it. I realize the buckhorns are not the most functional piece of equipment in the world.
                              Tire profiles, pressure, suspension condition/preload... Many things can affect how quickly a bike turns in.

                              BTW, David Hough'S excellent book Proficient Motorcycling has a very good description of countersteering and how to wrap your head around it, for those who don't just get it. Everybody needs to read that book or something like it anyhow.
                              Dogma
                              --
                              O LORD, be gracious to me; heal me, for I have sinned against you! - David

                              Skeptical scrutiny is the means, in both science and religion, by which deep insights can be winnowed from deep nonsense. - Carl Sagan

                              --
                              '80 GS850 GLT
                              '80 GS1000 GT
                              '01 ZRX1200R

                              How to get a "What's New" feed without the Vortex, and without permanently quitting the Vortex

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X