Symphony of destruction

[Kris V]

I dont see a 1200 kit of any size being a good idea for daily rider/street use, ESPECIALLY in your neck of the woods


What kinda smoke you blowin there kid??? I run a 1230 with turbo AND nitrous every day to work and thats 100 mile round trip I used to do do it with a 1327 same trip in the dead of summer with temps around 110 to 120. NEVER A PROBLEM.

[chef1366]

As a new motorcycle engine builder I've reached my quota of two blown motors.
I've learned my lesson.
Quit squeezing the last bit of juice out of the orange.

[Nessism]

As a new motorcycle engine builder I've reached my quota of two blown motors.
I've learned my lesson.
Quit squeezing the last bit of juice out of the orange.

So what are you going to do Bill?

[49er]

As a new motorcycle engine builder I've reached my quota of two blown motors.
I've learned my lesson.
Quit squeezing the last bit of juice out of the orange.

If you're going to build a trick drag motor, you'll need to keep squeezing close to the last drop out of the orange. If you use other peoples experiences as a yard stick, you can minimise the disappointments though.

Is this new 1230 for the road or the drags?

[Dave8338]

I agree with Kris in that it is not what you build but how it is built. You can take "nearly" any engine, built it to the max and run it. Driveability may become a pain in the arse but if built correctly, it won't come apart.

The margin for error just gets tighter the higher you build an engine...

I have three marks on my Mustangs' dizzy and it all depends what I'm doing with the car as to where the dizzy gets set. With a full electronic ignition many options are available to adjust the timing on the fly.

I like old school.

Build it BIG Bill, just make sure to build it right and tight.

Hey Kris...so is there any truth in needing a timing curve to this whole "Turbo Thing"?

[chef1366]

Right now I'm going with a stock 83 1100 motor until I get the funds to put together a 1230 motor. I need to have another head built and purchase an 1150 crank + gaskets ect....
Probably in the spring I'll put it together. I won't count out another 1166 cause I do have two good pistons.

[salty_monk]

Get it in there Bill... Fancy riding the Crest before the cold weather sets in??

Dan

[49er]

One of Bill's neighbors snapped this.....those damn L's it always somethin.............

Bill, with friends like this, who needs enemies?

Was this the first blow up or the second?

[chef1366]

Bill, with friends like this, who needs enemies?

Was this the first blow up or the second?

The last...............

[chef1366]

Get it in there Bill... Fancy riding the Crest before the cold weather sets in??

Dan

I'm in.

[salty_monk]

A Sunday prob as I know that suits you. Never know it might be my shakedown run for the 750 too... seeing as the last time was the shakedown for the skunk might as well follow form!

It's open all the way through now!

Dan

[Steveb64]

Snip'd

Steveb64, my brother did the same on his RD350 a few years back. I ported and tuned it for road racing and he went and fitted the wrong heat range plugs and destroyed the plugs and pistons in short time.
His attention to detail improved immensely after that experience.

Yeah, that's the problem with two strokes. The RD350's were quite notorious for it... Too lean will do the same thing too. Blown base gaskets can also cause nasty things to happen... DAMHIK.

Snip'd

I've put aside a set of near new CR31 Specials for the 1100G project. With these, I won't need to open the ports up and they will flow way better than the stock BS 34's. Just some pocket, valve guide and transition work to the pockets. I'll push the CR up to 11-1 on that one, sticking with 2 mm OS JE pistons. As with the 850, I'll bring the custom piston weights down to the stock weights.
I'm still toying with fitting pods as I can't find any stock airbox rubbers around 50mm dia. It's not that I can't tune to the pods, but I'm not keen on wearing the effects of weather conditions influencing my performance from week to week. The needles on the CR Specials have 7 clip positions to choose from, and I have 3 sets to play with. Luxury or confusion??

A couple of hints - My 33's started off as 31's, with 31mm inserts fitted (the CR's have a replaceable screw in end - the bit that fits into the manifold rubbers), and I had a hell of a time getting the jetting right - until I noticed that the carbs were stamped '33', but when I measured the venturi size - they were only 31's. I got a local machinist to make up a new set, with a 33mm ID, and tried them. YAHOO! Made ALL the difference.

So if you have any trouble getting your jetting right (particularly the needles) - try upgrading to 33's.

I ran with pods the whole time - K&N's worked best, and didn't cause too many problems in the wet. And it can get REALLY wet here... At one stage, I tried refitting the original airbox, with a K&N filter in it - but found it messed up the jetting too much - the outer cylinders ran really rich!

And I hate to pop your bubble - but there's more than just needles to play with on the CR's. You've gotta get the main jet and the main air jet (and the air jet can make a BIG difference) set right first, then get the right shaped (taper) needles, and also get the low speed air jets sorted too...

IIRC - I used to run #240 air jets with the pods, and #220's with the velocity stacks fitted.

BUT - there's some help! Check this site out: http://www.factorypro.com/tech/carbkei.html - it's for the FCR's, but the CR specials are close enough for it to be useful!

[49er]

Yeah, that's the problem with two strokes. The RD350's were quite notorious for it... Too lean will do the same thing too. Blown base gaskets can also cause nasty things to happen... DAMHIK.

And I hate to pop your bubble - but there's more than just needles to play with on the CR's. You've gotta get the main jet and the main air jet (and the air jet can make a BIG difference) set right first, then get the right shaped (taper) needles, and also get the low speed air jets sorted too...

IIRC - I used to run #240 air jets with the pods, and #220's with the velocity stacks fitted.

BUT - there's some help! Check this site out: http://www.factorypro.com/tech/carbkei.html - it's for the FCR's, but the CR specials are close enough for it to be useful!

Thanks for the heads up on the CR31's and your link. I did come across this info perviously when Googling for the suggested needles. No bubbles burst here, just a tired old tuner hoping not to have to re-invent the wheel too much, with this set up.

The PO bought these carbs from Sudco, pre-jetted for fitting to his GS850. He spent around 2 hours trying to get the needles right but wasn't happy with his results and went back to his Mikunis. I bought them sight unseen at a good price and have stored them until I'm ready to tackle the complete 1100G rebuild. They are genuine 31's, not sized down at the inlet sleeve.
The PO was running very rich pilots and needles, so I'm not surprised it didn't turn on as he would have liked.

I won't be tuning these things for a couple of years or so. I won't be too proud to pick your brains at that time, should problems arise. I'm expecting to have to chase the main/needle/pilot combo a bit. A real positive though, the PO's main jet size is in the ball park.

[TheCafeKid]

I dont see a 1200 kit of any size being a good idea for daily rider/street use, ESPECIALLY in your neck of the woods


What kinda smoke you blowin there kid??? I run a 1230 with turbo AND nitrous every day to work and thats 100 mile round trip I used to do do it with a 1327 same trip in the dead of summer with temps around 110 to 120. NEVER A PROBLEM.

Well, Im assuming you built it from the ground up no? Not just slapping a bore kit on the otherwise stock mill and going with it?? I can see building it from the ground up and having no problems, overseeing every little detail, but that, im sure, cost $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ out the wazzuuu. For those of us just trying to get the punch out of the motor with a moderate bore kit, and unchoking the head and whatnot, its quite a bit cheaper. And with a turbo, Id assume the motor stayed abit cooler no?

I didnt say it couldnt be done, and like I said, im no guru. But for ME to do it, on a budget, its not a feasible option. I'll stick with a moderate kit, building the motor for it as I go, so im SURE I have no....well, the pic down there says it all... I cant afford to build it twice. Heck, Its a long project being able to afford to build it once. Im not a drag racer. For that kind of money, I can go buy a Busa, slap some Heli bars on it and flatter 'sets and a GS logo, and call it good

[Steveb64]

Thanks for the heads up on the CR31's and your link. I did come across this info perviously when Googling for the suggested needles. No bubbles burst here, just a tired old tuner hoping not to have to re-invent the wheel too much, with this set up.

The PO bought these carbs from Sudco, pre-jetted for fitting to his GS850. He spent around 2 hours trying to get the needles right but wasn't happy with his results and went back to his Mikunis. I bought them sight unseen at a good price and have stored them until I'm ready to tackle the complete 1100G rebuild. They are genuine 31's, not sized down at the inlet sleeve.
The PO was running very rich pilots and needles, so I'm not surprised it didn't turn on as he would have liked.

I won't be tuning these things for a couple of years or so. I won't be too proud to pick your brains at that time, should problems arise. I'm expecting to have to chase the main/needle/pilot combo a bit. A real positive though, the PO's main jet size is in the ball park.

One thing you could check - unscrew the front (spigot? tube? - Keihin call it a 'mount adaptor' in the FCR book), and measure the inside (venturi) diameter of the carb. If it measures up to 33mm, then you can upgrade your carbs to 33's for a relatively small cost - and 33's will work better on an 1100 than 31's!

The jetting problems I was having (IIRC - it was 20+ years ago!) were that I could get the top end spot on, but then it was way too lean below half throttle, or I could get the bottom end right, but then above half throttle went way too rich - until full throttle, which jetted OK! Changed the carbs to 33's, and the problems all went away!

I may end up raiding the air jets off the CR's for the Duc, so if I do, I'll try and remember to check what needles are in them...

Sudco do a pretty good job of their jetting. The FCR's I bought (from ca-cycleworks) were damn near spot on out of the box. Even had the idle speed set right! ...But because I've got new headers as well, I need to faff around a little...